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moriah

(8,312 posts)
23. Eh, I sorta had a bit of the same reaction that guy did, so ....
Thu May 28, 2015, 11:53 AM
May 2015

... maybe I can take a shot at explaining why it came across similarly to me too. The bolded places are good, and he did explain that it was a vent (and if anyone has the right to have stuff to vent it's someone fighting for their child's life). However, there's a three letter word after each one, and what follows undercuts the good statements.

He said he feels that prayer is "ineffective" and "has no value". What's the definition of "worthless"? Having no value? Wouldn't "useless" also be another close synonym? It's a paraphrase, not an exact quote, but the gist is similar. Well, the common expressions "Wishing you the best" or "You're in my thoughts" are just as useless if you only believe in rational science and not the power of positive thinking (which is what prayer pretty much is). So is the fact prayer is ineffective the only reason they're offended? Do they feel offended by the friends who said those similar, innocuous phrases too?

The part you quoted certainly clues us into why they're taking offense -- because some Christians say God doesn't want fertility treatments to happen, or that infertility shouldn't be challenged because it's "God's plan", he is saying he thinks if God exists He would actually think that. Obviously they've had way too many people who felt that way try to push their beliefs on them during their infertility struggles. That sucks, and those people who pushed and preached at them suck too. Mean people suck.

But, okay, my thought is that if God existed and was omnipotent and all that jazz, He'd not have let people gain that knowledge (IVF or fertility treatments, or sterilization, birth control, or abortion for that matter) if he didn't want us to use it. If God exists and if He created us, He certainly gave us our minds, which have collaborated over the centuries to continue to advance human knowledge. If He didn't want their kids to have been born, He wouldn't have let us learn how fertility worked. Just because some Christians preach something doesn't make it so -- and I think they'd agree with at least that statement. Attributing all that meanness that some Christians have shown toward them to every person who says "I'll pray for you"... well, it may be understandable, but it's not exactly good.

I'm Pagan, so I am rather cognizant that some of my more Christian friends might not *want* me to pray for them. Most Christians are so used to their thoughts being the dominant paradigm, though, and don't think about that. Maybe some really do say "I'm praying for you" to make themselves feel better. But most do it the same way I say "I'm thinking of you guys, and wishing you the best". (I have been known to say that and then ask if someone minded if I prayed for them.)

In the *vast* majority of cases, I have realized it's pointless to try to educate the plethora of well-meaning but dim Christians I run into throughout life that not everyone believes the same way they do, and just try to take them at their intent. I had an extremely religious coworker at my last job. She was legitimately sweet, and took a *lot* of crap from people (one of the night shift guys decided to gaslight her into thinking he was a Satanist... geez). She invited me to her church soon after I started, when I was working on Easter. She knew I was new to the area, assumed I was Christian, and said if i hadn't already found a "church home" here that she'd be happy to have me come with her. I dodged the issue of my own faith by saying that my mother was Episcopalian and when I was in Little Rock I went to church with her (which was true, but not the whole truth). Later on when we got to know each other better, she did eventually learn I was Pagan -- but by then realized I was also a sweet person, so was able to ask questions rationally and get answers rather than run away screaming making the sign of the Cross.

I'm too poor to donate to their GoFundMe, though, so I really can't do much directly for them, except to try to say I care. So I hope they wouldn't be offended by learning that they were in my thoughts.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I hope his son does well. cbayer May 2015 #1
Good letter. SheilaT May 2015 #2
There is absolutely no reason to think that people offer prayers as a substitute for cbayer May 2015 #4
"Religiously based relief agencies " generally use part of the money you mistakenly give them Warren Stupidity May 2015 #5
which secular NGOs do you mean as even MSF has overhead? Thanks and I an genuinely curious. uppityperson May 2015 #14
They all have overhead. That isn't the issue. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #18
thanks for the reply. I tried to volunteered for one, but was turned down only because wouldn't uppityperson May 2015 #22
No and that is all about choice yeoman6987 May 2015 #26
It's my observation that people who offer prayers SheilaT May 2015 #13
Your observations are consistent with your confirmation bias but not cbayer May 2015 #17
I am not the one saying people who pray are heinous. SheilaT May 2015 #20
Please provide a link to that study yeoman6987 May 2015 #27
I did not say anything about a study. SheilaT May 2015 #33
You made factual statements yeoman6987 May 2015 #34
Gosh. All factual statements need to be backed by a study? SheilaT May 2015 #39
You clearly said it was your observation. cbayer May 2015 #40
Despite your "invisible friend" snark, some people get guidance and strength from prayer cbayer May 2015 #35
What I am responding to is SheilaT May 2015 #41
What you say about those who believe in prayer are only your assumptions. cbayer May 2015 #42
To quote you: SheilaT May 2015 #44
You continue to make the same statement about people praying cbayer May 2015 #45
He's so cute...poor guy... AuntPatsy May 2015 #3
In conclusion... Warren Stupidity May 2015 #6
mmmhmmm Heddi May 2015 #9
Yes. Bugs23 May 2015 #12
Here's the end. rug May 2015 #21
Yep. okasha May 2015 #25
Makes sense. Hospitals are not cheap. Prayers are. truebrit71 May 2015 #29
Money is Of actual use, in this case. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #30
Not a paraphrase. okasha May 2015 #31
Still not something you put in double quotes. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #32
Stay classy. mr blur May 2015 #36
And what do you think would be more effective, prayer or money? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #37
"Don't pray for my son. Send me money." AlbertCat May 2015 #43
IF people want to help phil89 May 2015 #53
What's wrong with that? Goblinmonger May 2015 #48
I liked the assholes in the comment sections who were like Heddi May 2015 #7
"Your son has often been in my thoughts and I'm hoping everything turns out well" struggle4progress May 2015 #8
Why are you referring to yourself in your last line? Heddi May 2015 #10
Eh, I sorta had a bit of the same reaction that guy did, so .... moriah May 2015 #23
All those words and not one viable reason to lie about what the man said Heddi May 2015 #24
You actually think his "quote" was alledging that was their actual words? moriah May 2015 #38
WheN you insist on telling an atheist 'I'm praying for you' instead of AtheistCrusader May 2015 #46
And do all atheists have it tattooed on their forehead? moriah May 2015 #47
That persons entire online public identity is built around the public knowledge he is a atheist. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #49
Also, I love the implied 'you conform to my norm' in your objection. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #50
Some people pray anyway, even when they know you're not religious Rob H. May 2015 #51
Do they have to rub it in our faces? AtheistCrusader May 2015 #52
This wasn't just telling, even Rob H. May 2015 #54
That person should have sensed and been sensitive to your discomfort. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #65
I've had a similar experience. Mariana May 2015 #66
The best way I can think to describe it Rob H. May 2015 #68
Or, religious people could just go and pray privately Mariana May 2015 #67
Exactly. beam me up scottie May 2015 #77
you just described religious privilege Lordquinton May 2015 #83
Yes, I'm aware that I did. moriah May 2015 #88
so you claim to understand this privilege Lordquinton May 2015 #89
Why are you deliberately misrepresenting what he wrote? beam me up scottie May 2015 #90
What about the hateful bigots who smeared the father in this thread? beam me up scottie May 2015 #72
Eeww! Starboard Tack May 2015 #87
S4p turned criticism into invective. That wasn't a paraphrase. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #28
You're a very phil89 May 2015 #11
Seriously? Rob H. May 2015 #15
I did read it. phil89 May 2015 #55
Uh... Rob H. May 2015 #56
Oopsie. It's ugly when you think it's pointed at you, isn't it….. cbayer May 2015 #58
What a fascinating dialogue you just manufactured. Is there something you want to tell us? AtheistCrusader May 2015 #16
Nice letter goldent May 2015 #19
I wish them the best. hrmjustin May 2015 #57
Whatever you do, don't pray for them!! cbayer May 2015 #59
Well that doesn't bother me. hrmjustin May 2015 #60
When people say it to me, I hear "I care about you and I'm thinking of you". cbayer May 2015 #61
Yeah most understand it is a courtesy. hrmjustin May 2015 #62
Yes, there are those that are creepy - like "I'll pray for your salvation". cbayer May 2015 #63
yes. But simple prayers are just a courtesy. hrmjustin May 2015 #64
.... and to this couple, a complete waste of time... truebrit71 May 2015 #69
That is how they feel and they shpuld be respected. hrmjustin May 2015 #70
Exactly... truebrit71 May 2015 #71
Thank you for showing some class, justin. beam me up scottie May 2015 #73
Thank you and agreed. hrmjustin May 2015 #75
Agreed. truebrit71 May 2015 #76
Thanks, justin Rob H. May 2015 #79
My pleasure. hrmjustin May 2015 #80
How's the weather over there? truebrit71 May 2015 #74
I'm in Atlanta and it's been raining a lot. cbayer May 2015 #78
I can't believe how much shitflinging this guy's rather windy but honest letter has engendered here. MADem May 2015 #81
Thank fuck SOMEONE around here knows how to paraphrase. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #84
I am into "Live and let live." And I like little kids--they're some of the nicest, most honest MADem May 2015 #85
+1, done and done. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #86
I do get sick of hearing about god gwheezie May 2015 #82
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