Religion
In reply to the discussion: Science has proved the existence of God [View all]Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)I'm a retired engineer with a BS in math and a masters in computer science and I taught freshmen logic at a college for a few semesters.
That said, Gödel's Ontological Proof gives as strong an argument for the existence of Ganesh, the Hindu elephant god as it does for The Flying Spaghetti Monster (my favorite choice of deity).
Second, just repeating something you found somewhere does not make you an expert on what you are repeating. If you wish to actually discuss the merits of this proof", then may I suggest you familiarize yourself with modal logic. You might start with Zalta's paper. or if you're more ambitious, Modal Logic (Cambridge Tracts in Theoretical Computer Science) at Amazon.com. If you want a short intro, search "modal logic" on Youtube for an intro video by you-tuber Carneades.org.
Third, Kant showed that the ontological argument allows us to prove that anything at all exists, which makes it a pretty weak form of argument:
many people consider it to have effectively demolished Anselms argument. However, it
must be said that Kants criticism is more appropriate for Descartes version of the
ontological argument than Hartshornes version. Kants argument was that
existence is not a predicate. That is, existence is not an attribute of individuals in the same way that
being short or red is. It is certainly true that we have to be careful here. If we can
arbitrarily add existence as a defining attribute for an individual, there seems to be no limit
to what we can prove to exist. Suppose we allow existence to be one of the defining
attributes of some being, such as a unicorn, for example. So a unicorn, by definition, is a
beast resembling a horse, with a horn on its head, which exists. While many of us will not
mind defining a unicorn as a horse-like animal with a horn on its head, we will hesitate to
allow existence to be a defining attribute in the same sense. It would seem that allowing
existence to be a predicate ensures that unicorns exist. Kant proposed that the ontological
argument slips existence in the back door, so to speak, by ensuring that it is a consequence
of the perfection of God.
quoted from:
Reflections on Gödels Ontological Argument by Christopher G. Small; University of Waterloo
Unless you really understand the material covered in that video (at least) then there is no point in my arguing the case with you, because you won't be able to follow what I'm talking about. And that is why I answered with a nonsensical non-sequitur non-answer. Because as far as I'm concerned the matter is as settled now as it was in the 1970s when I first studied it.
Therefore, 14 is exactly the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, and I can use Gödel's own Ontological Proof to prove that that is true.