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kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. Many gay Christians disagree with your viewpoint, as do many other Christians.
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 03:45 PM
Apr 2012

There is much dispute about the translation of some of the words in the King James version.

Here is a long and interesting essay on the subject.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm

A small excerpt:


The Bible's six "clobber" passages:

Two of the six texts, one in Hebrew and one in Greek, clearly condemn certain specific homosexual acts:

Men attempting to engage in bestiality -- sexual acts with another species (Jude 1-7), and

Heterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts which are against their essential nature (Romans 1:26-27).

Interpretations of four additional "clobber" texts differ among Christians: Religious progressives have often interpreted these passages as condemning men who sexually abuse boys, men who engage in homosexual ritual sex in Pagan temples, men attempting anal rape, etc. They view the Bible as being silent on sexual behavior within a consensual, monogamous committed homosexual relationship.

For example, they might identify the sin of the men of Sodom as explained in Genesis 19 as attempting to rape strangers as an act of humiliation. Alternatively, they might quote other biblical passages mentioning Sodom to show that the main sin of that city was their uncharitable behavior towards strangers, and their uncaring conduct towards the poor, the widows, and needy.

Religious conservatives often interpret all of the Biblical passages that touch on same-sex activity as condemning homosexuality in all its forms.



Edit to add a critique of the translation of Romans:

http://epistle.us/hbarticles/clobber2.html



BISEXUALITY AS A NORM IN ROME – The final major passage is Romans 1:26-27, where Paul writes, "even [the pagan] women did change [NIV: 'exchange'] the natural use into that which is against nature [para phusin]: [27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another [doing unseemly things and] receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet." (The "recompense" here may refer to the pagans' general downward slide, to venereal disease, or [as Philo suggested] to sterility.) Right from the start, three important observations should be noted : (1) This passage is about heterosexuals – and therefore has nothing to do with those with a homosexual orientation. These persons were fully able to enjoy heterosexual passion and pleasure, but then they turned to indulge also in same-sex activities. As John Chrysostom noted in a 4th century sermon on this passage, "Only those possessing something can change it." (2) This passage, in its larger context, is about God-rejecters – and therefore has nothing to do with GLBTs who have been Christian their whole lives but still also have always known that they are "different." (3) This passage is about lust (brothel pickups, back-alley sex, and the like) – and therefore has nothing to do with homosexual love, devotion, and commitment or to GLBT people who would like to find a companion and a long-term relationship. The focus of this passage, then, is narrowly fixed on certain negative aspects of sex, that can, in some cases, characterize both heterosexuals and homosexuals. This is the first (and only) mention of “lesbians” in the Bible (although in ancient times everyone was married or was expected to marry), probably introduced because Paul wishes to show that both genders need to experience God's grace (just as do the pagans and the Jews).


I got an entire analysis from another source that disagrees that lesbianism is even being referenced.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The anti LGBT voices are media empires in their own right. rrneck Apr 2012 #1
With most of the country in favor of GLBT civil rights, the anti-LGBT voices also cause cbayer Apr 2012 #2
Ain't it the truth. rrneck Apr 2012 #3
You just find it impossible to affirm something you believe in Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #13
Just plain wrong. And a little bit insulting. rrneck Apr 2012 #18
Ah what a nice anecdote. I too wish such things were more visible dmallind Apr 2012 #4
Looks like i underestimated the market. nt rrneck Apr 2012 #5
Looks like i underestimated the market. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #45
Old numbers, and the tide has definitely turned. cbayer Apr 2012 #6
As has been repeated throughout history, trotsky Apr 2012 #7
See #13 it applies to you too. Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #14
Sorry that I can't just forget history like you want to. n/t trotsky Apr 2012 #17
And here's the most recent that shows the effect of religiosity dmallind Apr 2012 #8
How is this more recent? The table I posted includes 2011 data. cbayer Apr 2012 #9
read the next words maybe? dmallind Apr 2012 #10
I did. cbayer Apr 2012 #11
Apparently not. "And here's the most recent **THAT SHOWS THE EFFECT OF RELIGIOSITY**" dmallind Apr 2012 #12
Perhaps they don't cover the greater support from the nonreligious because of the lack cbayer Apr 2012 #15
I think it would be really interesting to see a poll of organized religious observers -> pinto Apr 2012 #16
Absolutely. I have seen many a mind changed when someone they loved came out to them. cbayer Apr 2012 #19
It isn't really feasible to create a gay-positive religious movement. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #20
This is just false. cbayer Apr 2012 #21
It's not that gay-positive religious organizations don't exist. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #22
Here's one cbayer Apr 2012 #23
While you could argue that the scripture quote there can validate the idea of... eqfan592 Apr 2012 #24
Yes. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #25
I think there is a case to be made for Jesus's teachings about *eunuchs*. cbayer Apr 2012 #28
Many gay Christians disagree with your viewpoint, as do many other Christians. kwassa Apr 2012 #38
That kind of sums it up, though. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #40
Nobody is stuck ever in this universe. It isn't spin, it is a change. kwassa Apr 2012 #41
If one were a biblical literalist, I think your point is valid. cbayer Apr 2012 #26
Actually, I've never seen that particular letter... eqfan592 Apr 2012 #29
There are things in lots of books that need to be discarded as cbayer Apr 2012 #30
But that still doesn't fully answer my question eqfan592 Apr 2012 #33
Who is tying themselves down to the bad? cbayer Apr 2012 #35
Really, though... Plantaganet Apr 2012 #36
It may be abundantly clear to you, but it's not so for others. cbayer Apr 2012 #37
Fair enough. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #39
I see the point you're getting at, but the parallel you're drawing... eqfan592 Apr 2012 #47
n/t Plantaganet Apr 2012 #48
Do unto others as you as you would have them do unto you. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #46
Pssst! Plantaganet Apr 2012 #49
Poll Shows Many Religious Groups Support Gay Marriage (jezebel.com) pinto Apr 2012 #27
While the numbers are still too low, the trend appears obvious cbayer Apr 2012 #31
About 15 years ago, a friend attended the General Convention of the Episcopal Church Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #50
Fantastic news. Plantaganet Apr 2012 #32
Good point. And I'd add that secular culture has always had some influence on religions. pinto Apr 2012 #34
Some senior British clergy just wrote a letter to The Times, supporting gay marriage LeftishBrit Apr 2012 #42
Great! Thanks for bringing this here and not surprised cbayer Apr 2012 #43
The CONSERVATIVE party supports gay marriage there! kwassa Apr 2012 #44
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