Religion

tama

(9,137 posts)

60. God does not throw dice?

Sun Dec 18, 2011, 06:48 PM

Dec 2011

Likewise, not trying to be contrary, just parafrasing Einstein's objection to random chance of quantum physics. In science, to my understanding, "random chance" is not a simple concept and leads to speculative cosmologies, philosophies about order or orders and chaos etc.

For example, an irrational transcendental number looks like infinite totally random litany of numbers, but a known transcendental number like pi is fundamental geometric ratio and can be generated by relatively simple arithmetic formulas. Given the little we know - even about math - there is always the theoretical possibility that there is some generative and/or implicit order - known unknown or unknown unknown - behind what looks like totally random from our point of view.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

189 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

For the sake of clarity, and understanding, why don't we just all stand up and say [View all] MarkCharles Dec 2011 OP

gnostic atheist lazarus Dec 2011 #1

Also a gnostic atheist EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #2

"If a deity is completely unknowable, then there's no point to having a god. " MarkCharles Dec 2011 #3

Frankly, I think this question is way too simplistic. cbayer Dec 2011 #4

we're pretty much already factioned lazarus Dec 2011 #5

Agree that there are some who clearly identify themselves as part of a distinct cbayer Dec 2011 #8

To me it seems tama Dec 2011 #59

Would you like us to put it in our signatures? darkstar3 Dec 2011 #6

Actually, I'd like having non-believers NOT subject to ridicule here MarkCharles Dec 2011 #7

Herein lies one of the biggest problems with this group, imo. cbayer Dec 2011 #9

I called no one that, but you took it personally, now why is that? MarkCharles Dec 2011 #11

I didn't take it personally at all. And my answer to all your questions here are no. cbayer Dec 2011 #15

Well, that's been the point all along skepticscott Dec 2011 #17

I have not really seen what you describe. cbayer Dec 2011 #19

Perhaps this forum needs to be split into Religion and Religion Slugfest. snagglepuss Dec 2011 #22

There are several theist only groups. Near ignored, but available. nt dmallind Dec 2011 #26

I wasn't thinking so much of a theist only group rather a group where profound disagreement about snagglepuss Dec 2011 #68

God would have had to have designed human nature intelligently for that to happen dmallind Dec 2011 #119

I think we already have that situation EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #27

True dat. snagglepuss Dec 2011 #69

You assume incorrectly that it's only the atheists iris27 Dec 2011 #33

Why would Atheists be the only ones needed to be "on good behavior?" cleanhippie Dec 2011 #40

No different than my saying religious types should mind their p s and qs in the atheist forum. snagglepuss Dec 2011 #70

This isn't a safe haven group laconicsax Dec 2011 #71

SOP says discuss, it says nothing about hostile putdowns. I'm not even against venting hostility snagglepuss Dec 2011 #75

Gee, another attempt to cast doubt skepticscott Dec 2011 #34

What's with all the secrecy? I, for one, would LOVE to know what you believe in smile....xenu luvs u Dec 2011 #136

You are like one of the blue men trying to convince people you are green. So much humblebum Dec 2011 #45

Would this comment LARED Dec 2011 #36

Why not just ask a simple question instead of trying to make it into some kind of challenge? Leontius Dec 2011 #10

If you are not brave enough to step up to the plate with your beliefs, I can understand how MarkCharles Dec 2011 #12

You really don't get it do you, a simple question would have been enough to get some responses Leontius Dec 2011 #16

In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with G-d; and the Word was G-d. struggle4progress Dec 2011 #13

What is G-d? cleanhippie Dec 2011 #41

ummm... General Discussion, I think. TygrBright Dec 2011 #43

! struggle4progress Dec 2011 #66

So just what does G-d mean? cleanhippie Dec 2011 #96

Religious Jews (and possibly some other groups) consider it wrong to use the Deity's name in full LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #97

Ahh, you mean like in Harry Potter, where they can't bring themselves to say Voldemort's name? cleanhippie Dec 2011 #98

In Finnish language tama Dec 2011 #101

So just like Harry potter. Got it, thanks. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #106

You're wellcome! nt tama Dec 2011 #108

Not exactly; but I would guess the taboo on Voldemort's name is indeed based on actual religious LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #167

Isn't "G-d" equally a representation of the Lord's name as "God?" ChadwickHenryWard Dec 2011 #148

Not sure. Struggle4progress seems to not want to answer. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #172

Well, I know that speaking or writing the tetragrammaton is supposed to be blasphemous, ChadwickHenryWard Dec 2011 #175

Yeah, I know. The really, REALLY irrational beliefs are the hardest to defend. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #176

Well, it's not like he got in my face about it. ChadwickHenryWard Dec 2011 #177

I don't believe in the supernatural uriel1972 Dec 2011 #14

Well, I think most all humans (but me and some friends) are all idiots The Straight Story Dec 2011 #18

"humans are not special, just a bunch of chemicals walking around -very much like the sun and such." ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #52

Not fully meant as snark The Straight Story Dec 2011 #78

Well, if there is a cosmic "programmer"... LAGC Dec 2011 #156

Weeellllll, rrneck Dec 2011 #20

I'm practicing discarding all beliefs altogether. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #21

Can't beat a hole in water. nt rrneck Dec 2011 #28

True that. nt GliderGuider Dec 2011 #29

Even though you are attempting to discard all beliefs LARED Dec 2011 #73

Touch�... n/t GliderGuider Dec 2011 #74

OK FarCenter Dec 2011 #23

I'm a Agnostic Atheist Buddhist. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #24

Just to clarify Vehl Dec 2011 #77

Great post, thanks! Odin2005 Dec 2011 #87

you are welcome :) Vehl Dec 2011 #104

I just don't believe in anything that lacks evidence. dmallind Dec 2011 #25

What is this, the Take Your Side thread? iris27 Dec 2011 #30

It's a lot like choosing sides for dodgeball in seventh grade. nt rrneck Dec 2011 #31

Dammit,no-one ever picked me for their team back then either. nt GliderGuider Dec 2011 #32

I am Shinto~Buddhist. (Jodo Shinshu) AsahinaKimi Dec 2011 #35

beautiful! Thank you. tfsoccer Dec 2011 #37

This can not be the result of random chance! tfsoccer Dec 2011 #38

Thats an interesting view, but who actually thinks this is the result of "random chance?" cleanhippie Dec 2011 #42

Most aetheists? or people without a belief in a god-like force governing the universe? tfsoccer Dec 2011 #47

Maybe I should rephrase. Most PEOPLE with a basic understanding of biology, evolution, and the cleanhippie Dec 2011 #49

God does not throw dice? tama Dec 2011 #60

Most atheists do not believe that. Mariana Dec 2011 #57

You've wrapped two fallacies into one, here. darkstar3 Dec 2011 #61

How do you know everything that other people think?? Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #62

If you're referring to the statement I made about people and their belief in random chance, darkstar3 Dec 2011 #63

I do not know what everyone thinks so it is impossible Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #64

That's called an appeal to ignorance, and I'm not playing. darkstar3 Dec 2011 #65

There's 50-50 chance (or more) tama Dec 2011 #67

My questions indicate a POSSIBLE answer to a response to mine... tfsoccer Dec 2011 #76

Einstein on God tfsoccer Dec 2011 #188

Ray Comfort? Bananna man? THAT is your response? Seriously? cleanhippie Dec 2011 #189

Ok LARED Dec 2011 #39

Roman Catholic Pendrench Dec 2011 #44

I am an atheist. Iggo Dec 2011 #46

To be honest, I 'd have to identify with "angry atheist", mr blur Dec 2011 #48

+100000000 cleanhippie Dec 2011 #50

I am a second-generation Jewish atheist... LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #51

Someone with a devotion to Church/State separation, for the good of everyone. Adsos Letter Dec 2011 #53

It would take too long to describe what I believe. Short version: MH1 Dec 2011 #54

If there are gods they do not need an organized religion Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #55

Hindu Atheist. Vehl Dec 2011 #56

No religion tama Dec 2011 #58

Here is mine Meshuga Dec 2011 #72

My response Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #79

Did you really need to start your comment with an attack? laconicsax Dec 2011 #80

And that would be different from the past...how? darkstar3 Dec 2011 #81

And yet you fail to ask the same question of the original poster and his related comments Leontius Dec 2011 #82

The original poster isn't guilty of repeated attempts to chide or shut down the board darkstar3 Dec 2011 #83

And that is exactly what I just pointed out. Leontius Dec 2011 #84

So you think laconicsax is a hypocrite, and TMO is not, is that what you're saying? darkstar3 Dec 2011 #85

The energy for evolution has been supplied from the sun and from terrestrial radioactive decay FarCenter Dec 2011 #86

In contemporary science tama Dec 2011 #95

Information and energy are quite separable FarCenter Dec 2011 #100

Mass and energy tama Dec 2011 #103

Sounds good to me. rrneck Dec 2011 #88

Art is a window into the transcendent. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #89

As an atheist I do not say your uriel1972 Dec 2011 #90

Is math 'Real'? tama Dec 2011 #94

Math is not "Real". FarCenter Dec 2011 #102

What else tama Dec 2011 #105

The observations are symbols, but the reality is not n/t FarCenter Dec 2011 #107

Wouldn't it be more simple tama Dec 2011 #109

No -- because then one has to adopt some more complex theory to account for consistency FarCenter Dec 2011 #113

Never mind nt tama Dec 2011 #116

Let's see tama Dec 2011 #123

Mental phenomena are the result of the consciousness app running on the unconscious OS on wetware FarCenter Dec 2011 #127

Very good of you tama Dec 2011 #135

Maths is no less real than any human creation. uriel1972 Dec 2011 #121

So what tama Dec 2011 #124

Maths is the language in which we describe those theories uriel1972 Dec 2011 #126

Interesting tama Dec 2011 #134

I wasn't saying maths exists outside the universe, uriel1972 Dec 2011 #138

Natural languages: GliderGuider Dec 2011 #144

No you weren't, but let's be carefull tama Dec 2011 #159

Are you saying that science drives creation? tfsoccer Dec 2011 #110

nope science observes that's it's job. uriel1972 Dec 2011 #120

Science also theorizes, proves and explains. tfsoccer Dec 2011 #137

Einstein tama Dec 2011 #160

thank you--'beautiful concept of God! tfsoccer Dec 2011 #164

Now you're attacking the same old straw man that all non-believers darkstar3 Dec 2011 #92

NOBODY said that atheists don't believe in love etc. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #111

You said it right here: darkstar3 Dec 2011 #130

You can go out rrneck Dec 2011 #154

Sounds a lot like The Force to me. darkstar3 Dec 2011 #91

Here are a few--and this is just through the "Cs" Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #117

I haven't read those, but just to be clear: darkstar3 Dec 2011 #132

Try reading just a few instead of asking about things you have Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #145

Try engaging in discussion instead of thumbing your nose at the rest of us. darkstar3 Dec 2011 #153

The reason I posted the long list of books--for which you asked, Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #171

Looks to me like quite a few Process Theology folks in that truncated bibliography... Adsos Letter Dec 2011 #152

Doesn't sound anything like Christianity as practiced by: darkstar3 Dec 2011 #155

You would have been called an atheist tama Dec 2011 #161

Damned straight I attacked belief lazarus Dec 2011 #93

Or, "when did you stop beating your wife." Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #114

It's a serious question that you obviously haven't considered lazarus Dec 2011 #128

The poster asked people to define what they believed, Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #115

I said what I believe lazarus Dec 2011 #129

"I don't hate or attack (Ifill in your own named enemy) Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #180

I doubt I'm in the top 50, but for what it's worth. deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #99

Now there is an interesting bit of rational discussion nt Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #112

I am a Christian and liberal. Sal316 Dec 2011 #118

There. Was it so hard to admit that you cherry-pick? laconicsax Dec 2011 #122

Discernment isn't cherry picking. Sal316 Dec 2011 #125

So you construct elaborate arguments for why you do it. laconicsax Dec 2011 #131

+1 darkstar3 Dec 2011 #133

What liberal christians Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #139

I'm not aware of any. laconicsax Dec 2011 #141

I think with any philosophy Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #158

Here's the thing. Sal316 Dec 2011 #142

There are only 2 kinds of people uriel1972 Dec 2011 #143

I thought it was those with loaded guns and those who dig. laconicsax Dec 2011 #151

Neither reason nor motive change the action. laconicsax Dec 2011 #149

So, just for clarity.. Sal316 Dec 2011 #163

Sigh...no laconicsax Dec 2011 #165

Ok, then what wouldn't be cherry picking? Sal316 Dec 2011 #168

That's a subject where it's impossible not to. laconicsax Dec 2011 #174

Boy, that's a lame-assed copout. Sal316 Dec 2011 #178

You must not be a literature person. laconicsax Dec 2011 #179

if you equate cheery picking with careful scholarly investigation. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #146

I don't equate the two. laconicsax Dec 2011 #150

The bottom line is skepticscott Dec 2011 #157

Same in philology tama Dec 2011 #162

And if there were people skepticscott Dec 2011 #170

To be fair... LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #169

I have a question about one of the beliefs you listed. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #147

I am Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #140

Not an adherent to any religion but still a form of theist. Nihil Dec 2011 #166

I hate labels. Quartermass Dec 2011 #173

No thanks. Brigid Dec 2011 #181

If you feel you have been personally attacked, I encourage you to alert on cbayer Dec 2011 #182

So by simply "FEELING" a personal attack, one has the right to... MarkCharles Dec 2011 #183

Of course. Anyone has the right to alert on any post cbayer Dec 2011 #184

Anybody has a right to alert on anything LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #187

If you mean the 'grinch' thread, the attacks were on Larry Taunton the writer of the article LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #185

Solitary Norse Heathen Tyrs WolfDaemon Dec 2011 #186