Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

97. Worse how?

Wed Jul 20, 2016, 12:38 PM

Jul 2016

Groups of people in the ME a couple thousand years ago committed genocide against other groups. The only thing that's "worse" is the advanced weaponry some groups now have. Of course the US has been involved in supporting individuals and/or regimes who allow us access to their oil. This is obvious to everyone, I would hope. But unless you have evidence that every single Islamic terrorist is specifically acting just to get "revenge" for western interference in their governments, then you also have to accept that when some of them claim they are fighting a holy war against infidels, they actually fucking mean it.

Oh and the point about Gandhi is to illustrate that it isn't just interference in local affairs that causes terrorism, otherwise Gandhi and the Indian independence movement would have been terrorists too. There are other factors.

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Do 9/11, San Bernardino and Nice illustrate a problem with Islamic theology? [View all] Albertoo Jul 2016 OP

Oh no, of course not. Religion isn't the basis for any religiously based terrorism at all! cleanhippie Jul 2016 #1

Thanks for your kind answer. My mind is at peace now. Albertoo Jul 2016 #2

Christians are worse, Crusades, Inquisition Cayenne Jul 2016 #3

Christians did those things when Christianity was about the age that Islam is now. Squinch Jul 2016 #4

Yes, I see it the same way. LuvNewcastle Jul 2016 #37

Questionable, but I don't care. IF it was true, would it exonerate Islam 2016? Albertoo Jul 2016 #7

So where was the Islamic Supremacism, based on Islamic theology, in the 19th and 20th centuries? rug Jul 2016 #9

Massive fail: Islamic Supremacism has been official doctrine in both centuries Albertoo Jul 2016 #12

Lol, the Barbary Wars were dictated by the Qran? rug Jul 2016 #15

Your LOLs and broken links are not an answer to my quote about the Barbary Wars Albertoo Jul 2016 #16

The links should be fine. No kowledgable person says the Barbary Wars was about Islamic supremacism. rug Jul 2016 #19

No kowledgable person says the Barbary Wars was about Islamic supremacism? Albertoo Jul 2016 #26

Yeah, the Historian of the State Department doesn't have a clue. rug Jul 2016 #35

Do you expect the State Department to be frank about the religious origins of war? Albertoo Jul 2016 #40

About events 200 years ago? D'uh, yes. rug Jul 2016 #42

LOL LOL LOL Comments of the past cannot arouse modern day sensibilities? Albertoo Jul 2016 #44

You're really going off the deep end. Lasted longer than I expected, though. rug Jul 2016 #46

btw, XIXth century 'Saudi Arabia' started with a war in the name of radical Islam Albertoo Jul 2016 #18

Then you have a problem. It was the Ottoman Caliphate versus a grop of Wahhabis? rug Jul 2016 #20

When a war is waged in the name of wahhabism, call it nationalism if you like Albertoo Jul 2016 #23

When it's the uprising of an entire peninsula against an Empire, of course I do. rug Jul 2016 #39

I'll try to point you to the key word: Ottoman-WAHHABI War Albertoo Jul 2016 #43

I can boldface too rug Jul 2016 #45

Bravo! Excellent! Religion was one of the two key reasons for this war. Albertoo Jul 2016 #48

The Barbary Wars have as much to do with Saudi Arabia as the Little Big Horn does. rug Jul 2016 #50

Do try to follow: common denominator = Islamic supremacism Albertoo Jul 2016 #51

Only in your head. rug Jul 2016 #53

You keep repeating mantras disproven by evidence I provided Albertoo Jul 2016 #57

That's the type of proof I find scrawled on bathroom walls. rug Jul 2016 #58

What an impressive way to dismiss evidence Albertoo Jul 2016 #61

Were it evidence, it would not be dismissed. It's not. rug Jul 2016 #62

So, the historical texts and references I provided are not evidence, your opinion is Albertoo Jul 2016 #64

What you have produced has lest coherence than what is found on a ladle dipped in stew. rug Jul 2016 #67

Empty words, that's all you've got against the evidence I provided? Albertoo Jul 2016 #68

I've already told you what yourevidence is. rug Jul 2016 #69

PS: the Islamic Council text you quoted is a bunch of flagrant lies Albertoo Jul 2016 #65

Here is the first example that popped up. Cayenne Jul 2016 #13

You understand 1971 was the year of the Bangladesh War of Independence, don't you? rug Jul 2016 #22

I'm so weary of the excuse making Cayenne Jul 2016 #25

In retreat from Western Civilizations superior military force after 900 years of violent expansion Leontius Jul 2016 #71

Wars with Israel=Muslim Holy war Brettongarcia Jul 2016 #90

Couldn't possibly be British colonialism and displacement. rug Jul 2016 #98

Sorry Rug you can't blame the Arab-Israeli wars on British colonialism. Leontius Jul 2016 #99

You realize the zionist movement of the 20th century was led by atheists, don't you? rug Jul 2016 #100

And that relates to British colonialism in what way? Leontius Jul 2016 #103

Hmm, because Israel was in the British Mandate? rug Jul 2016 #104

Really reaching far out there to justify blaming the Arab-Israeli wars on British colonialism. Leontius Jul 2016 #110

The same thing happened with the British Raj. rug Jul 2016 #111

Earlier, new, borderline atheists... Brettongarcia Jul 2016 #105

"Zion" has as much appeal as "America". rug Jul 2016 #106

A lot on some circles Brettongarcia Jul 2016 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Brettongarcia Jul 2016 #91

Pray list the latest attacks. 840high Jul 2016 #11

Wait...we're justifying 2016 violence because of Middle Ages violence? MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #30

No Cayenne Jul 2016 #47

Touch�. nt MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #52

I believe it is. mr_liberal Jul 2016 #5

Had we really investgated 9/11 maybe we could avoided a lot of what happenened in its wake. Old and In the Way Jul 2016 #6

That's one magic effect of religion: redemption Albertoo Jul 2016 #8

That explains the strip club on 9/10. rug Jul 2016 #10

What strip club 9 10? And do tell me my misstatement of Islamic theology. Albertoo Jul 2016 #14

�It is incomprehensible that a person could drink and go to a strip bar one night, rug Jul 2016 #17

LOL LOL LOL a starting point on Islamic theology? Albertoo Jul 2016 #21

Well, in this case, the first step would be scraping off the layers of information. rug Jul 2016 #32

May I suggest you use semiology rather than boy scout third worldism? Albertoo Jul 2016 #59

Why? Do you not accept simple reading as a means of learning? rug Jul 2016 #60

You're just not a serious debater: you counter a quantifiable argument with propaganda Albertoo Jul 2016 #63

I see. You learn by counting words as opposed to reading them. rug Jul 2016 #66

"the only secular/progressive society in the mid-East"??? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2016 #72

What nation-state in the mid-east was more progressive? Old and In the Way Jul 2016 #75

Israel. Lebanon. Jordan. Turkey. muriel_volestrangler Jul 2016 #78

Hundreds of passages in the Bible advocate violence. Eko Jul 2016 #24

Yes. And? Does it excuse the violent supremacism of the Quran? Albertoo Jul 2016 #27

Of course not, Eko Jul 2016 #31

Today, only Islam has millions of believers supporting violence in the name of religion Albertoo Jul 2016 #36

Really? Eko Jul 2016 #41

IF you REALLY think both things are equivalent, I suggest a VERY simple test Albertoo Jul 2016 #79

I never said they were equivalent, Eko Jul 2016 #81

I'll answer: it's all a matter of risk weight Albertoo Jul 2016 #82

Do you live here in the USA? Eko Jul 2016 #83

A perfectly disingenuous statement Albertoo Jul 2016 #85

Anyway, you just didn't answer my risk quantification Albertoo Jul 2016 #86

You would be in more trouble in pakistan probably. Eko Jul 2016 #87

Why stop at millions? Old and In the Way Jul 2016 #76

Thanks for pointing out the problem is ideologies and not people Albertoo Jul 2016 #80

No religion is good Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #28

True. Even Jainism is sexist. Albertoo Jul 2016 #29

Even some paganism Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #34

The responses on this thread are classic DU... MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #33

Look around America. Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #38

I always said Islam is in need of a reformation towards the progressive side. hrmjustin Jul 2016 #49

The west has screwed with the Middle East for the last 100 years The_Casual_Observer Jul 2016 #54

Yup, it's all our fault, even the Ottoman killing of one million Armenians...ah, just about 100 demosincebirth Jul 2016 #55

Right. Near Eastern history didn't start until 1914. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2016 #56

Yes, but in a more general sense. trotsky Jul 2016 #70

Amen, brother. But, for demographic reasons, Islam is currently the most toxic Albertoo Jul 2016 #73

Correct. trotsky Jul 2016 #74

Do you think this happens in a vacuum? Old and In the Way Jul 2016 #77

So you think decades of wahhabi propaganda had nothing to do with it? Albertoo Jul 2016 #84

It feels better to just blame those dirty foreigners cpwm17 Jul 2016 #88

Well that's a lovely strawman. trotsky Jul 2016 #92

No, in another thread Albertoo completely denied the revenge factor for 9-11. cpwm17 Jul 2016 #93

"Eliminate the US from the equation and the ME would be in far better shape." trotsky Jul 2016 #95

In the 20th century, conflict caused by the West was worse than caused by the ME. cpwm17 Jul 2016 #96

Worse how? trotsky Jul 2016 #97

Were the Muslim invasion of Spain, siege of Vienna, slavery for centuries caused by the US? Albertoo Jul 2016 #112

Perhaps surprisingly, I'd answer mostly no whatthehey Jul 2016 #89

"Theology" is a very broad term. trotsky Jul 2016 #94

Theology probably isn't the correct term. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2016 #108

Response to both the above - mostly agreed whatthehey Jul 2016 #109

Not detailed? trotsky Jul 2016 #115

A different topic from terrorist killers, but even so whatthehey Jul 2016 #116

"We rarely hear from actual shoot/bomb/kill terrorists."?? trotsky Jul 2016 #117

Religions are not to blame for the carnage they have caused ???? Albertoo Jul 2016 #113

Did you stop reading at that point????????????? whatthehey Jul 2016 #114

Yes, my bad Albertoo Jul 2016 #118

Hundreds of passages in the bible rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #101

Ultra-conservative Wahabbism and Salafism? Yes. cheapdate Jul 2016 #102