Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

179. HOLY FUCKING SHIT

Fri Oct 21, 2016, 12:57 PM

Oct 2016

You finally answered! What was so freaking hard about that?

And OF COURSE people can be motivated to do violence for other reasons - I have never claimed otherwise, in fact, that's YOUR straw man that you assign to everyone who points out your continual efforts to excuse religion as a motivation.

But now that you've answered my question, you have to face the words you've written and explain yourself. For instance:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=180364

In the Koran, the Prophet tells the faithful to "forget and forgive, live and let live" but many of those who claim to follow him have ignored these words.

My feeling is that anyone can claim to be following any philosophy but I will judge them by their actions.

In that little excerpt, you are specifically claiming to know what Islam must entail, and then declaring that anyone who doesn't follow your interpretation isn't really a Muslim (i.e., they're just "claiming" to be). So let's see how you reconcile these opposing viewpoints and get out of the box you just locked yourself into.

This will be fun.

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Religion Is the Biggest Bully of Them All [View all] trotsky Oct 2016 OP

good read handmade34 Oct 2016 #1

What!? And let them learn the world is older than 6000 years?? padfun Oct 2016 #183

That was surprisingly content free struggle4progress Oct 2016 #2

+1 Agree. nt jonno99 Oct 2016 #3

Here's some bully content Cartoonist Oct 2016 #5

It's common human behavior: boorish jerks justify whatever they do however they can struggle4progress Oct 2016 #6

Will religious people make any argument at all... Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #7

QED cleanhippie Oct 2016 #11

Struggle? You said 100 times religion doesn't cause violence. Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #13

Do you think someone would have flown an airliner into the WTC without religion? Major Nikon Oct 2016 #25

Dozens of amateur pilots used airplanes for suicide struggle4progress Oct 2016 #30

Yes, and none of the examples you cited were precipitated by anyone other than the pilots themselves Major Nikon Oct 2016 #36

The real criterion for any scientific theory is simply this: struggle4progress Oct 2016 #38

I didn't ask if you thought it was possible, I asked if you thought it would have happened Major Nikon Oct 2016 #39

We can agree 9/11 happened. The targets were the WTC and two DC sites, struggle4progress Oct 2016 #41

Learn the logical principle 'ex falso quodlibet' struggle4progress Oct 2016 #42

MH370 Pilot Flew a Suicide Route on His Home Simulator Closely Matching Final Flight struggle4progress Oct 2016 #31

FBI: CAP pilot intentionally crashed plane into Anchorage building struggle4progress Oct 2016 #32

Murder-suicide plane crashes have killed over 600 struggle4progress Oct 2016 #35

Remember the Alamo! rug Oct 2016 #40

no, they wouldn't Skittles Oct 2016 #178

Natural law Democrats_win Oct 2016 #127

Yep. it is recovering_democrat Oct 2016 #4

To be honest, there were political 'religions' as scary as the god religions Albertoo Oct 2016 #22

Militarism is the biggest bully of all. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #8

It's the other way around Cartoonist Oct 2016 #9

Chicken vs egg argument. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #10

Either way, religion is is involved in furthering violence Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #12

Violent people often claim a religious or philosophical motivation. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #14

?!? Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #15

You are trying to validate your predetermined conclusion. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #16

Predestination is a major debate Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #18

And when a President sends troops to war, with the idea being that they are fighting for God and guillaumeb Oct 2016 #19

Misuse of that authorization is predictable Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #20

We are in agreement. eom guillaumeb Oct 2016 #43

I make no formal verification of agreement Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #62

Except that there is no 'sacred' book of Atheism saying "Slay the unbelievers in Atheism" Albertoo Oct 2016 #21

I agree, but with one slight change. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #44

What you call 'their version' is the official version of the Sunni world = the hadiths Albertoo Oct 2016 #125

The hadiths are Islamic commentary. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #129

In your version of Islam they are commentaries Lordquinton Oct 2016 #132

Absolutely not. Ask any mainstream imam. Albertoo Oct 2016 #149

I have discussed this with Muslims in my area, including one Imam. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #159

Have you discussed it with ALL Muslims? If not, you can't speak for them. n/t trotsky Oct 2016 #162

Let me get started on that right now. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #165

On countless occasions you have attempted to declare what is "true" Islam. trotsky Oct 2016 #168

On countless occasions, you have attempted to reframe what I say so you can argue against it. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #170

What you have said is indeed clear for anyone to read. trotsky Oct 2016 #171

Evade, deflect and avoid. Obviously you have nothing else or you would have linked to it. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #172

It's all in this thread. No need to link to anything. trotsky Oct 2016 #174

You are obviously convincing yourself, but your evasion proves my point. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #176

No one's fooled. trotsky Oct 2016 #182

Are the Muslims in your area Sunni or Shiite? Lordquinton Oct 2016 #184

My point has been that there are varieties of every religion. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #186

So religion is pointless. Lordquinton Oct 2016 #190

How would one put either atheism or religion "in the bin"? stone space Oct 2016 #191

It's a personal decision to leave religion Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #193

Why do you always go to a violent solution? Lordquinton Oct 2016 #200

This is a blatant and knowing lie. And it is time to call a lie a lie. stone space Oct 2016 #206

If you find it pointless, do not follow it. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #195

you're the one claiming it's pointless Lordquinton Oct 2016 #199

I said "if YOU find it pointless" do not follow it. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #207

What you wrote confirms what I said and confirms you were wrong Albertoo Oct 2016 #192

If you had bothered to read my response, you would have seen that they are considered guillaumeb Oct 2016 #196

Did you ever read the hadiths? You are wrong: reports are not commentaries. Albertoo Oct 2016 #197

You might want to do a bit of research on martyrdom Major Nikon Oct 2016 #27

And military people are also killed for civil religion. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #45

There's no promise involved Major Nikon Oct 2016 #52

The promise that the deaths were not in vain. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #53

That's not a promise to the dead, that's a promise to the living Major Nikon Oct 2016 #56

It is a promise to the living made to convince them that the deaths are justified. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #57

Which is completely verifiable by the living Major Nikon Oct 2016 #58

What is militarism? trotsky Oct 2016 #23

The fact that you need to ask the question is telling. rug Oct 2016 #24

Militarism and patriotism are defined by the civil priests. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #46

That didn't answer my question. trotsky Oct 2016 #47

You asked what is militarism. I linked it to politicians. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #49

Right. You didn't answer. trotsky Oct 2016 #50

You rejected my answer. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #51

Right, because it didn't answer the question. trotsky Oct 2016 #54

Your beliefs require that you frame your questions in a certain way. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #55

Your beliefs require that you can only answer questions in a certain way. trotsky Oct 2016 #60

To explore your response guillaumeb Oct 2016 #63

Must have missed this. trotsky Oct 2016 #116

Militarism doesn't cause religion, but religion too often causes militarism. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2016 #26

It's not so much of a cause and effect relationship Major Nikon Oct 2016 #28

Lots of isolated groups have religion because the power structure uses it to control people. . . .nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2016 #29

True, but in that instance there's not as much need for militarism Major Nikon Oct 2016 #33

That's the point. . . . . .nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2016 #34

My point is I don't see it as a cause and effect relationship Major Nikon Oct 2016 #37

Militarists will often use religion as justification for militarism. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #48

Exactly. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2016 #59

From what religion does the concept "God is on our side" arise? trotsky Oct 2016 #61

The state religion that is patriotism. eom guillaumeb Oct 2016 #64

Patriotism NeoGreen Oct 2016 #65

And some use patriotism as an excuse for violent actions. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #71

Or religion... NeoGreen Oct 2016 #79

And from what holy book does that religion arise? trotsky Oct 2016 #66

US history. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #72

US history isn't a holy book. trotsky Oct 2016 #73

I would say you are locked into a literalist definition of words because you cannot admit guillaumeb Oct 2016 #74

Your argument is indeed much stronger... trotsky Oct 2016 #75

Belief systems are based on many things, with some similarities. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #76

Sure thing, whatever you say. trotsky Oct 2016 #77

I linked to an article. You can find more, or could if you really wanted to understand another guillaumeb Oct 2016 #78

As I just pointed out, you're the one trying to define things to your liking. trotsky Oct 2016 #86

As you pointed out does no really describe this latest post by you. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #88

We've been through this many, many times. I agree. trotsky Oct 2016 #90

Asked and previously answered. But in the interest of clarity: guillaumeb Oct 2016 #92

So your answer to my question is "yes"? trotsky Oct 2016 #93

People are motivated by many beliefs to commit violence. The motivation can be religious or secular. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #94

So for the record, you did not answer my question. trotsky Oct 2016 #95

I actually answered it twice. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #101

No, you did nothing of the sort. trotsky Oct 2016 #106

Allow me to prove you wrong. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #110

Strange. You said you'd prove me wrong, but your post didn't. trotsky Oct 2016 #112

Could you put a summary on an internet meme, please? stone space Oct 2016 #80

Gilla? Heard of the "no true Scotsman fallacy? Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #145

And where exactly did I say that? guillaumeb Oct 2016 #158

When you emphasize causes of violence other than religion, Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #160

Quite a roundabout admission that I did not actually say what you previously posted. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #161

Often its not what people say, but what they assume Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #163

Yeah, you've got it. n/t trotsky Oct 2016 #164

So again you ascribe something to me that cannot be found in my actual posts. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #166

So are you admitting there can be bad things in Christianity? Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #167

I am still waiting for you to clarify yuor view or admit that you have constructed a straw man guillaumeb Oct 2016 #169

Proving that we are criticizing a straw man is quite easy. trotsky Oct 2016 #173

Yes. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #175

HOLY FUCKING SHIT trotsky Oct 2016 #179

Easy one. Almost too easy in fact. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #180

Easy only with the worldview you've chosen. trotsky Oct 2016 #181

Absurdity. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #187

I agree, your position is absurd. trotsky Oct 2016 #198

Is that the only thing Muhammad said? Lordquinton Oct 2016 #185

Did you read what I posted? If so, why would you ask this question? guillaumeb Oct 2016 #188

I did. Lordquinton Oct 2016 #189

That is not what I said. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #194

It is what you said Lordquinton Oct 2016 #201

I actually said that not all people follow these words. guillaumeb Oct 2016 #208

Is this a joke? where did guillaumeb find this quote? Albertoo Oct 2016 #209

Geez, I kinda took it for granted he'd know what he was talking about. trotsky Oct 2016 #210

The Nazi state religion that quotes God, or "Gott" Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #146

"Courage is fire, and bullying is smoke" - Benjamin Disraeli rug Oct 2016 #17

It's funny to see the twisting going on. Lordquinton Oct 2016 #100

It's been quite entertaining, but wholly expected. n/t trotsky Oct 2016 #108

I see a lot of the common excuse Lordquinton Oct 2016 #113

Gotta do it. Thankless task to be sure. Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #111

As a Christian, I can't disagree. I've seen too many egos infesting organized religion that BlueCaliDem Oct 2016 #126

Problematic reasoning. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2016 #130

If the Book of Acts is to be believed, trotsky Oct 2016 #131

It's easier in the internet age. stone space Oct 2016 #133

*sigh* Correcting you once again: trotsky Oct 2016 #136

If I claim to be an astronaut, then I'm an astronaut. This is the internet, after all. stone space Oct 2016 #137

If the Book of Acts were to be read, rug Oct 2016 #135

So, is this bible passage... Fix The Stupid Oct 2016 #138

If you can't tell I can't fix it. rug Oct 2016 #139

That's why I am asking you..the expert. Fix The Stupid Oct 2016 #140

These people are the experts: rug Oct 2016 #141

God kills those who don't contribute, in Acts 5.1-12 Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #142

If you believe that actually happened. rug Oct 2016 #143

So you're following the metaphor algorithm? Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #144

No, I'm following reading comprehension. rug Oct 2016 #147

"Fill in the Blank" Post #1. Modern preachers misrepresented the Bible. Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #148

That's not an algorithm. rug Oct 2016 #150

At one time, only a Christian view was allowed, or popular Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #151

You're think of some of the colonies, not the United States rug Oct 2016 #152

Technically? Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #153

Are you complaining that atheists meet with impolite opposition? rug Oct 2016 #154

Equally on both sides of course Brettongarcia Oct 2016 #155

I'll accept that. rug Oct 2016 #156

Brilliant response! cornball 24 Oct 2016 #204

CORRECT Skittles Oct 2016 #177

All Supremacists by nature are bullies HAB911 Oct 2016 #202

There are few, Fichefinder Oct 2016 #203

Hi there. Just wondering why you felt the need to post this superfluous and supercilious cornball 24 Oct 2016 #205

Dec 1969 #