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In reply to the discussion: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule. [View all]muriel_volestrangler
(106,283 posts)83. "God created man in his own image", and as you said, that's about sentience
That's in the foundational text for 2 out of 3 of the Abrahamic religions (and I suspect there's something similar in Islam).
If you think that thorns are comparable with, say, 1 million deaths per year from malaria, and hundreds of millions suffering from that one disease, for millennia, let alone all the others, then there won't be much point in continuing the conversation. If a Creator were following his Golden Rule, he'd have looked at those deaths and how to prevent them. If he's completely alien to human ideas of empathy - fine. That's what would make him 'evil'. A Creator of this universe cannot be said to be benevolent.
Coincidentally, I read this today:
Children were crying as horrible diseases stripped them of any hope of joy.
Vibrant active young adults became crippled and died by every manner of injury and disease.
Mental illness played a changeling game with entire personalities, leaving behind strangers who couldnt cope.
Cancerous evil that was devouring individuals, families and communities seemed to be everywhere.
...
I understood he was just parroting what he had been taught. This was, after all, the worldview of my church and the majority of evangelicalism. Placing evil in the context of Gods will was a coping mechanism that shut out the human voices of pain and reduced responsibility. But what sickened me was that everyone I knew agreed with this twisted view of God and human suffering. So I decided right then and there that this had to stop. I would find a resolution to The Problem of Evil that would answer my own nagging doubts and quiet the human voices that had kept me awake for so long, even if it killed me. And it nearly did Till human voices wake us and we drown. T.S. Elliot, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.
That day was followed by many years of reading books, journals, and essays from every theological and philosophical perspective possible. For my seminary masters thesis, I argued that God wasnt involved or even concerned about individual suffering. Instead, he allowed a specific kind of suffering for the purification of the church, his new Israel. It was a good piece of work but, in the grand tradition of theology, was complete rubbish when it came to the real world. So I continued to struggle with the issue after seminary and for many years after leaving the ministry. Obsessed, I truly felt that although human voices had awakened me to a major problem with the Christian view of God, I was now drowning in a murky sea of theology and philosophy with no lifeline in sight. I grew increasingly depressed and mentally exhausted with what became my personal koan (a Zen problem, riddle or puzzle that cannot be resolved by rational thought), until, like a Zen student, I let go, realizing that, like any good koan, the answer is in the riddle itself.
Why does an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good God allow evil? He doesnt, because he doesnt exist. After all, where was he while I so fervently sought the Holy Grail? You would think defending himself would be one of his major concerns.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rationaldoubt/2016/12/help-castle-haunted/
Vibrant active young adults became crippled and died by every manner of injury and disease.
Mental illness played a changeling game with entire personalities, leaving behind strangers who couldnt cope.
Cancerous evil that was devouring individuals, families and communities seemed to be everywhere.
...
I understood he was just parroting what he had been taught. This was, after all, the worldview of my church and the majority of evangelicalism. Placing evil in the context of Gods will was a coping mechanism that shut out the human voices of pain and reduced responsibility. But what sickened me was that everyone I knew agreed with this twisted view of God and human suffering. So I decided right then and there that this had to stop. I would find a resolution to The Problem of Evil that would answer my own nagging doubts and quiet the human voices that had kept me awake for so long, even if it killed me. And it nearly did Till human voices wake us and we drown. T.S. Elliot, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.
That day was followed by many years of reading books, journals, and essays from every theological and philosophical perspective possible. For my seminary masters thesis, I argued that God wasnt involved or even concerned about individual suffering. Instead, he allowed a specific kind of suffering for the purification of the church, his new Israel. It was a good piece of work but, in the grand tradition of theology, was complete rubbish when it came to the real world. So I continued to struggle with the issue after seminary and for many years after leaving the ministry. Obsessed, I truly felt that although human voices had awakened me to a major problem with the Christian view of God, I was now drowning in a murky sea of theology and philosophy with no lifeline in sight. I grew increasingly depressed and mentally exhausted with what became my personal koan (a Zen problem, riddle or puzzle that cannot be resolved by rational thought), until, like a Zen student, I let go, realizing that, like any good koan, the answer is in the riddle itself.
Why does an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good God allow evil? He doesnt, because he doesnt exist. After all, where was he while I so fervently sought the Holy Grail? You would think defending himself would be one of his major concerns.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rationaldoubt/2016/12/help-castle-haunted/
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This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule. [View all]
Greatest I am
Dec 2016
OP
This thread is the equivalent of running around a room while your underwear is burning.
rug
Dec 2016
#14
Again, you are asking me to speculate on something I have never experienced.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#73
I'm just asking what you believe. Just to understand what you think "free will" means.
trotsky
Dec 2016
#87
No, I'm not interested in your red herring to distract and wiggle out of the contradiction.
trotsky
Dec 2016
#108
I clicked, hoping for a list of my many contradictions, and found a repeat.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#142
You mischaracterized my post (which wasn't even my words), and attacked a straw man instead.
trotsky
Dec 2016
#146
You decided to post it. You could have qualified it with a comment, if you had wished to do so.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#147
The difference was significant enough for Trump to win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#167
It's a significant difference from the overall vote, and you asked for an explanation
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#175
That's a get-out that would work for religions that don't claim humans were made
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#31
Yes, that's my point; free will is about sentience, and a religion that believes
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#41
Why indeed? The religions that claim humans are made in the image of 'God'
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#44
So you see 'the Creator' as different from Jesus - Jesus exemplified following the Golden Rule
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#47
Again, this is not just about 'free will' - it's about human and animal suffering
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#61
If one believes that the Creator created, and allowed that creation to continue,
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#68
But the Abrahamic religions don't believe the Creator just allowed everything to continue
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#69
"Allowing for free will has nothing to do with caring about what was created" - that's the point
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#72
I will not address it because nothing is proven here.It is a statement of belief.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#78
For someone unwilling to address theodicy, you've spent a hell of a long time on a thread about it
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#79
"God created man in his own image", and as you said, that's about sentience
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#83
The function of the Creator, or one of the possible functions, is to create.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#89
It's not about 'curing evil'. It's not about 'evil' as a social construct.
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#90
'Calamities', 'misfortunes', 'bad things' - yes, I think they come under 'mala'
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#94
Sometimes I do take offense when people claim that I am saying the opposite of what I said.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#97
Yeah, the kind who requests an apology from someone who has made a false accusation.
trotsky
Dec 2016
#127
If there were only one definition of "the right thing" for every potential action,
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#197
The type of meditation known as rational "thinking" is extremely useful.
Bretton Garcia
Dec 2016
#234
Pure projection. As well to say that because the Creator created roses that the thorns are evidence
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#92
Your second sentence confirms my point about evil being a social construct.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#121
I am not a believer in predestination. It conflicts with the idea of free will.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#123
If any of those scenarios are true, we wouldn't know it. Dreams, delusions are there...
immoderate
Dec 2016
#172
Belief. Make believe refers to the act of deliberately pretending to believe.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#192
The problem with this particular format of write/wait/respond is that of nuance.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#24
But "faith if it has no works is dead." So real faith produces physical works.
Bretton Garcia
Dec 2016
#32
Humans generally do anthropomorphize when speaking about an unknown entity.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#101
No, religion might reference the physical world, and recognize certain things about that world,
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#103
Santa is also evil. And the Tooth-Fairy is evil. And the real monster is Dr. Frankenstein himself.
DetlefK
Dec 2016
#51
These are questions that have been asked for a long time and will continue to be.
hrmjustin
Dec 2016
#128
Yet you think that can be summed up as "this proves there is no Creator"
muriel_volestrangler
Dec 2016
#162
The "God is evil by reason of non-interention" argument falls under the whole concept.
guillaumeb
Dec 2016
#168
Well these questions bring up a lot of emotions and feelings and some people
hrmjustin
Dec 2016
#156
How can you get away with saying "God" is male when I get fried for calling Pamela Taylor
rzemanfl
Dec 2016
#163
Numero uno-who the hell is DL? As a mere mortal, I pose this question. If mankind has been
cornball 24
Dec 2016
#176
Comparative degree of "smart". Thanks for sharing your hygienic routine. Our progenitors
cornball 24
Dec 2016
#199