Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

84. Let us explore this idea that you presented:

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:46 AM

Dec 2016

You have a child. A number of years later, your child has a child. That grandchild at one point commits a murder.

Are you responsible for the murder?

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Proof that God is evil? Easily and quickly controverted. [View all] guillaumeb Dec 2016 OP

Well, if there is no god(s), there can be no evil. rug Dec 2016 #1

depends edhopper Dec 2016 #2

Not really. One species' extinction event is another species' opportunity. rug Dec 2016 #3

The words evil and good are both subjective. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #5

But then there are universal values across all cultures. the Golden Rule for example. rug Dec 2016 #6

In my view, the Golden Rule is basically a rule for species survival. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #8

In that case, good is species survival and evil is extinction. rug Dec 2016 #11

Would it be evil if a species that posed a great danger to other species died out? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #14

Is malaria good? rug Dec 2016 #16

Exactly. What is considered good, or evil, varies among cultures. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #20

If nothing really true can be said about God, then why go on posting? Bretton Garcia Dec 2016 #42

Perhaps that question should be directed to Skinner. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #47

exactly edhopper Dec 2016 #15

No more than a theist can. rug Dec 2016 #17

yes edhopper Dec 2016 #22

Absolutely wrong. HassleCat Dec 2016 #26

That is not the existence of good or evil; it is opinion. rug Dec 2016 #34

Not according to humanist principles. HassleCat Dec 2016 #35

Which are all opinions and values shared by some like-minded people. rug Dec 2016 #37

I am first to admit that I have a finite mind. Ergo, I choose not to engage in dialogues cornball 24 Dec 2016 #4

A nice response. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #7

I did read that post and quite honestly, I was distressed by it. Your responses, I found to be both cornball 24 Dec 2016 #12

Thank you for the kind words. I will try to live up to them. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #19

only if you accept edhopper Dec 2016 #13

Both religious and non-religious people can commit quite horrendous acts. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #18

and that means edhopper Dec 2016 #21

No. Not actually what I said. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #23

but I was replying edhopper Dec 2016 #24

I understand, but the reply came to me. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #25

oops edhopper Dec 2016 #27

No problem. I generally like your insights anyway. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #28

thanks edhopper Dec 2016 #31

I don't follow your argument. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #9

I did not say that there is no such thing as an incontrovertible statement. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #10

There are things in logic that seem incontrovertible Bretton Garcia Dec 2016 #40

Good and evil are terms that are generally used to categorize actions and beliefs. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #46

St. Paul was on his way to an odd transcendance Bretton Garcia Dec 2016 #57

I don't understand. What is this 'God' concept, Ghost Dog Dec 2016 #29

God is whatever you want her/him/it/them to be. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #30

Nature. The Natural. Ghost Dog Dec 2016 #32

One possibility is that God is a non-interventionist. MarvinGardens Dec 2016 #33

Like it. cornball 24 Dec 2016 #36

Or, as George Carlin wisely stated, "He doesn't give a shit." longship Dec 2016 #38

True. If the Creator constantly intervened, or had purposefully guillaumeb Dec 2016 #39

But God himself cannot grow; since he is already infinitely large Bretton Garcia Dec 2016 #41

As the creation grows, does not the Creator also grow? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #50

A big bang expanding universe, is different from traditional theology Bretton Garcia Dec 2016 #58

Where it expands to is a matter for scientists. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #63

So what? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #45

Presumably we all have free will. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #51

That's not really the point. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #52

But recognition that the Creator intended for his sentient creations to have free will guillaumeb Dec 2016 #53

I don't see how that's relevant. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #54

I disagree on your last statement. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #55

Nothing says "I love you" like pediatric cancer. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #61

Love has nothing to do with sickness. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #66

The Creator didn't create cancer? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #67

The Creator created existence. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #69

Knowing full well it would develop into a capricious, decidedly unfriendly place? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #79

Let us explore this idea that you presented: guillaumeb Dec 2016 #84

That's not the idea I presented. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #94

Knowingly producing an unsafe product, think the Ford Pinto, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #95

You're fixated on humans doing evil. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #96

And some people are apparently fixated on the idea that the existence guillaumeb Dec 2016 #104

You're right, it's not either-or. trotsky Dec 2016 #105

There could be an infinite variety of options. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #110

The main idea of the argument is what should be the object of fixation, one would think. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #120

My intent in posting was to state that it is not irrefutable that God is evil. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #123

But I was not replying to the OP. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #125

Evil IS a subjective term. What IS evil varies from society to society. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #128

And as I pointed out, you're right. Because your god could also just be a clueless dick. trotsky Dec 2016 #126

"Your" god could indeed be as you describe. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #129

A clueless god explains the problem of evil. trotsky Dec 2016 #130

Oh what do you base that claim? n/t trotsky Dec 2016 #80

I have stated before that this is my belief. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #85

But you stated it as a claim. trotsky Dec 2016 #87

I have stated many times that it is my belief....etc. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #89

Yet you stated it as a claim. trotsky Dec 2016 #91

Personally I just don't think God decides what happens here. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #43

Agreed. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #48

That doesn't resolve the issue of suffering that is outside human control... Humanist_Activist Dec 2016 #100

Well these are questions that humanity will continue to ask after we are long gone. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #118

Good or evil nil desperandum Dec 2016 #44

True. A point that others here have made. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #49

I need incontrovertible proof that there is a god before I entertain whether or not it's an evil god Iggo Dec 2016 #56

Good to have standards. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #64

Establishing the existence of a thing before judging qualities of that thing. Iggo Dec 2016 #74

In science. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #75

Not saying god is evil.. EvilAL Dec 2016 #59

A simple definition of evil Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #62

Yeah. by that definition EvilAL Dec 2016 #76

A bit of Biblical literalism combined with scepticism, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #65

Aww, that's cute. trotsky Dec 2016 #68

I have never described myself as a literalist. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #70

No, you would never describe yourself that way. trotsky Dec 2016 #71

If I never would describe myself that way, and I agree with you on that, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #72

Because you're a literalist. trotsky Dec 2016 #73

Degrees of literalism? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #82

It may contradict YOUR definition, but not THE definition. n/t trotsky Dec 2016 #86

And THE definition is?: guillaumeb Dec 2016 #88

That's one definition. trotsky Dec 2016 #90

The Song of Solomon, the Psalms of David are both examples of poetry. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #92

Thanks for confirming you're a literalist! n/t trotsky Dec 2016 #93

K. . since you don't EvilAL Dec 2016 #78

1-3 allegorical. 4-literal. 5-7 allegorical. Although 7 is based on a mistranslation. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #83

Oh, good. Let's try these: Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #97

There is no evidence Hebrews were ever used as slaves in Egypt during the building of the pyramids. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #98

Apparently there are contradictory theories. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #106

Also the Egyptians probably want those artifacts back. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #109

The return of all stolen artifacts would empty the British Museum. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #111

I'm ok with that. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #112

Which is the greater evil? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #113

Little difference to me, except one holds the possibility of returning it, someday. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #114

Agreed. eom guillaumeb Dec 2016 #115

What about the extended components of Exodus, like Passover and the plagues? AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #116

I believe that this is metaphorical. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #117

Passover is a pretty important holiday/observance. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #119

That depends on the point of view of the person being questioned. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #122

see. I said it was easy. EvilAL Dec 2016 #99

Thanks for the information. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #107

Yeah. . EvilAL Dec 2016 #77

More projection? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #81

Swing and a miss. n/t trotsky Dec 2016 #60

God is pure love, and Hitler went to heaven. Binkie The Clown Dec 2016 #101

Well the way they get around that one... trotsky Dec 2016 #102

Your Point is Well Taken On the Road Dec 2016 #103

Probably not aware. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #108

Looking at the Big Picture. The Universe is all of time and space and it's contents. cornball 24 Dec 2016 #121

That might be a good question to ask in a separate post. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #124

Nothing vicman Dec 2016 #127