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Bretton Garcia

(970 posts)
87. Barron never does History
Mon Apr 17, 2017, 09:49 AM
Apr 2017

Last edited Mon Apr 17, 2017, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Like a typical priest, he never really looks for documents outside the Bible. He doesn't rely on what science says is possible. He just offers yet another reading of our endlessly uncertain, equivocal Bible, as his only reference.

But? Amazingly, Bishop Barron endorses one of my main ideas: that ironically, amazingly, and contrary to what many Christians like Rug and Guil assert, Cristianity is not supposed to be based just on faith and slirituality. But also Reason and History (and I add later, Science):

'First, at its best, Christianity is not fideist, that is to say, reliant upon a pure and uncritical act of faith on the part of its adherents. Rather, it happily embraces reason and welcomes critical questions. Secondly, and relatedly, Christianity is a stubbornly historical religion. It is not a philosophy (though it can employ philosophical language), nor is it a spirituality (though a spirituality can be distilled from it); rather, it is a relationship to an historical figure about whom an extraordinary historical claim has been made, namely, that he rose bodily from the dead. '

Barron and especially Strobel to be sure, might seem to imply that when we apply real historical methods to the Bible, it will be proven true and good. However? I hold that while the Bible supports critical history, it knows well enough itself that ultimately, much of the Bible itself and its heaven, will mostly collapse, and be disproven, by really rational, historical, scientific, critical inquiry.

My view is that the Bible supports science; even though it knows that science will disprove ... much of the Bible itself.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Is the virgin birth in the same category? greymattermom Apr 2017 #1
In the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and some other Christian groups. rug Apr 2017 #4
Happily embraces reason Cartoonist Apr 2017 #2
I really doubt you're laughing. rug Apr 2017 #5
It made my day Cartoonist Apr 2017 #27
Your confusion between Ken Ham and Robert Barron explains your confusion about religion. rug Apr 2017 #36
Confusion? Cartoonist Apr 2017 #61
con·fu·sion rug Apr 2017 #62
In what way? Cartoonist Apr 2017 #64
What is in your head does not always translate to reality. rug Apr 2017 #65
He is risen Cartoonist Apr 2017 #68
Define the proof you say he is needed. rug Apr 2017 #69
Not that line of BS again. Cartoonist Apr 2017 #71
And you never answer it. rug Apr 2017 #72
Biblical scholarship Cartoonist Apr 2017 #73
The ultimate closed, prejudiced mind. rug Apr 2017 #74
Open it then Cartoonist Apr 2017 #75
I'm not your rabbi. rug Apr 2017 #82
The hate manual Cartoonist Apr 2017 #85
It'c clearly a manual you hate. rug Apr 2017 #94
Jesus tells us to "hate" our family, quote. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #103
If I had a talking snake like the one in the Bible.... Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #3
You'd also be as far from the topic as Uranus. rug Apr 2017 #6
I've read three of Strobel's books Orrex Apr 2017 #7
His book doesn't convince me either but he frames the question squarely. rug Apr 2017 #8
I agree that he frames the questions reasonably well Orrex Apr 2017 #9
Your second paragraph is illogical. rug Apr 2017 #10
"Nothing about religious belief can be stated with certainty." Orrex Apr 2017 #11
Incorrect. rug Apr 2017 #14
No, that's not the first thing to know about religious belief Orrex Apr 2017 #18
"believers"? Are you standing by that broad brush statement? rug Apr 2017 #38
"Religious beliefs can easliy be supported by logic after the datum is stated." Orrex Apr 2017 #43
You haven't answered my question about your broad brush. rug Apr 2017 #45
So your insults are ok, but mine are intolerable? Got it. Orrex Apr 2017 #50
By all means, "proactively witness". rug Apr 2017 #54
But here's the thing: Orrex Apr 2017 #55
I invited comment and debate, niot tired, repetitive antitheist slurs (like thatbetter than meme?) rug Apr 2017 #57
But your debates are tired from the outset Orrex Apr 2017 #66
Not nearly as tired as this: rug Apr 2017 #70
Rug, why do you do this? potone Apr 2017 #77
Thanks for yor concern, potone. rug Apr 2017 #81
Broad-brush Orrex Apr 2017 #120
Oh, I very clearly see where you two diverge. rug Apr 2017 #122
Similarly, I see where you diverge from people who can formulate an argument Orrex Apr 2017 #124
See, here's the thing Orrex Apr 2017 #121
For one who hates prosetylites you you give a fair mimicry. rug Apr 2017 #123
Where have I preached the good news about atheism? Orrex Apr 2017 #125
QED. rug Apr 2017 #126
LOL Orrex Apr 2017 #136
It's clear you don't realize you just demonstrated the point. rug Apr 2017 #137
Yes, some religionists are very fond of that tactic Orrex Apr 2017 #138
LOL rug Apr 2017 #139
QED Orrex Apr 2017 #140
EOD rug Apr 2017 #141
Barron argues as I do that Christianity DOES make empirical claims Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #30
Actually, he states that classic Christianity is based on fact, not empiricism. rug Apr 2017 #39
Religion twists words around dishonestly, Peter warned Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #46
Are you quoting an Epistle in support of your argument? rug Apr 2017 #49
Yes. I believe the Bible warns about itself. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #53
"Nothing about religious belief can be stated with certainty." AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #118
Here is a take on Strobel's view of the resurrection, by Brent Landau still_one Apr 2017 #101
That, ultimately, is true. For both sides. rug Apr 2017 #102
We should thank Rug sincerely here. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #104
That's not framed, it's a low slow softball over the plate, designed to be hit by a believer. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #117
At least the reviewer edhopper Apr 2017 #12
Oh, Barron is no hack at all. rug Apr 2017 #15
didn't say he was a hack edhopper Apr 2017 #17
Sorry, I call a lot of clergy hacks, usually based on their insincerity and cynicism. rug Apr 2017 #20
I think he is biased edhopper Apr 2017 #21
I don't find Strobel's arguments convincing either. rug Apr 2017 #23
biased yes edhopper Apr 2017 #26
I've talked with Robert Barron. And Strobel's son Kyle. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #13
I'm dubious. rug Apr 2017 #16
Blog Kyle. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #19
Metamorpha. rug Apr 2017 #22
That's Kyle Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #24
Here's his blog. rug Apr 2017 #25
When he called me "friend" at EWTN he was an up and coming priest Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #28
He would still call you friend. rug Apr 2017 #37
So, does he uncover irrefutable physical proof of the Resurrection? PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2017 #29
He's referring to the hearsay account written years after the purported fact, Orrex Apr 2017 #32
Sounds likely these guys all right Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #33
Watch the movie. Read the book. rug Apr 2017 #40
He's preaching to the choir. People sworn to believe faithfully. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #51
Like hell he has. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #88
The hell he hasn't. rug Apr 2017 #96
I have several copies of his book. A throw-away theistic argument is to give someone AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #99
The story is loaded: The story's premise puts the atheist at an unwinnable disadvantage. DetlefK Apr 2017 #31
Precisely. Flip it and that's exactly the antitheist method. rug Apr 2017 #41
Nice broadbrush Orrex Apr 2017 #84
Here's a meme for you. rug Apr 2017 #93
It's only unwinnable because there's no evidence. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #89
It's unwinnable because you attack the immaterial by demanding material evidence. rug Apr 2017 #95
*Ignoring the books of your faith claim the immaterial MADE everything material* AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #97
But it does. rug Apr 2017 #107
False analogy Orrex Apr 2017 #108
Cliched replies. rug Apr 2017 #109
Ad hominem Orrex Apr 2017 #110
Red herring. rug Apr 2017 #111
No Orrex Apr 2017 #112
I've read it already. rug Apr 2017 #113
Does the author describe themself in the book and how he or she might be contacted? AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #114
Exactly. Orrex Apr 2017 #115
Right. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #116
Terrific summary Orrex Apr 2017 #119
An ant doesn't know what a tool is. It's incapable. rug Apr 2017 #128
Right as usual sir. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #129
Tell me when they find ants using a sponge left behind a drywall. rug Apr 2017 #130
If I got shot down that hard I might be tempted to drop a non-sequitur and flee as well. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #131
You're a hero in your own mnid, Ace. rug Apr 2017 #132
Is that so? Lordquinton Apr 2017 #135
Special pleading Orrex Apr 2017 #105
Apples and oranges. rug Apr 2017 #106
At least apples and oranges are REAL. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #133
So is their difference. rug Apr 2017 #134
This guy can't really be much of a reporter PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2017 #34
True. But? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #35
History is what happens in the real world. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2017 #44
I agree. Barron has more work to do. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #47
Read his review edhopper Apr 2017 #42
Rug tricked us with a misleading excerpt again !?!!?? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #48
Same old edhopper Apr 2017 #52
That's a pretty piss-poor - and stale - summary of the review. rug Apr 2017 #59
Careful, or you'll be accused of broad-brushing. Orrex Apr 2017 #56
Seeking succor in sympathetic quarters? rug Apr 2017 #60
No. Orrex Apr 2017 #67
That could be the title of the fucking book/movie in your OP. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #90
Squealing like a stuck pig could be the title of some responses. rug Apr 2017 #92
No, I mean your post was a genius paraphrase. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #100
Maybe you should read the whole link. rug Apr 2017 #58
+1000 Cattledog Apr 2017 #63
Jesus is always real to me. hrmjustin Apr 2017 #76
Strobel should not have been impressed with the idea Htom Sirveaux Apr 2017 #78
Elvis sightings were a staple of the National Inquirer Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #79
Apologetics generally bore me but this shallow intellectualism is amusing.... Humanist_Activist Apr 2017 #80
Standard responses to apologetics Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #83
Argument to populism is tricky. They still crank out some 1/3-1/2 million copies of Atlas Shrugged AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #91
I was trying to be generous, and bringing up the point that it doesn't matter much if it was.... Humanist_Activist Apr 2017 #98
"Faith" attacks the science, history, of the Bible Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #86
Barron never does History Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author ymetca Apr 2017 #127
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