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Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
44. Well, it's certainly in the general historical record
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:44 AM
Oct 2017

It's almost like the problem is with the people who miss it rather than the existence of the information. No, wait. It's exactly like that.

I first learned of the SS prohibition against atheists while reading Kurt Meyer's memoirs. He tells some whoppers in there--nearly half as big as your tales about atheists involved in the Holocaust--about the SS not getting priority for men or equipment, but his comments on atheism have been supported. Padfield's biography of Himmler mentioned his frequent comments that atheists did not have the moral requirements to commit genocide. Hitler's views on religion were a bigger part of Toland's and Kershaw's biographies than most of the others. Kershaw in particular ran with it for his view of Hitler as having a "drummer" phase before the "called by god" phase. Incidentally, the two-volume Kershaw set is probably the best biography of the man, with apologies to Snyder's dual Hitler/Stalin biography. The substance of the SS regulations I've already told you about twice are a historical document and available to anybody who can google them for 5 seconds. Here. Let me help:

On October 13, 1933, Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess issued a decree stating: "No National Socialist may suffer any detriment on the ground that he does not profess any particular faith or confession or on the ground that he does not make any religious profession at all." However, the regime strongly opposed "Godless Communism" and all of Germany's freethinking (freigeist), atheist, and largely left-wing organizations were banned the same year.

In a speech made during the negotiations for the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933, Hitler argued against secular schools, stating: "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith." One of the groups closed down by the Nazi regime was the German Freethinkers League. Christians appealed to Hitler to end anti-religious and anti-Church propaganda promulgated by Free Thinkers, and within Hitler's Nazi Party some atheists were quite vocal in their anti-Christian views, especially Martin Bormann. Heinrich Himmler, who himself was fascinated with Germanic paganism, was a strong promoter of the gottgläubig movement and he did not allow atheists into the SS, arguing that their "refusal to acknowledge higher powers" would be a "potential source of indiscipline"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#Atheists Their cite is Michael Burleigh

Many of the concepts promoted with the SS violated accepted Christian doctrine, but neither Himmler nor his deputy Heydrich expected the Christian church to support their stance on abortion, contraception or sterilization of the unfit – let alone their shared belief in polygamy for the sake of racial propagation. This did not however represent disbelief in a higher power from either man nor did it deter them on their ideological quest. In fact, atheism was banned within the SS as Himmler believed it to be a form of egotism that placed the individual at the center of the universe, and thus constituted a rejection of the SS principle of valuing the collective over the individual. All SS men were required to list themselves as Protestant, Catholic or gottgläubig ("Believer in God&quot . Himmler preferred the neo-pagan "expression of spirituality". Still, by 1938 "only 21.9 percent of SS members described themselves as gottgläubig, whereas 54 percent remained Protestant and just under 24 percent Catholic." Belief in God among the SS did not constitute adherence to traditional Christian doctrine nor were its members consummate theologians, as the SS outright banned certain Christian organizations like the International Bible Research Association, a group whose pacifism the SS rejected. Dissenting religious organizations like the Jehovah's Witnesses were severely persecuted by the SS for their pacifism, failure to participate in elections, non-observance of the Hitler salute, not displaying the Nazi flag, and for their non-participation in Nazi organizations; many were sent to concentration camps where they perished. Heydrich once quipped that any and all opposition to Nazism originated from either "Jews or politicized clergy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_SS The cite for atheism is Buchheim in that pesky historical record.

Remember those "godless communists" the Nazis had such a problem with?

In a speech made later in 1933, Hitler claimed to have "stamped out" the atheistic movement. The word Hitler used in this speech, "Gottlosenbewegung", means "Godless Movement" in German, and it refers to the communist freethought movement, though it might not refer to atheism in general.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#Nazi_Germany

How about the way the Wehrmacht oath changed in 1933 from

I swear loyalty to the Reich's constitution and pledge, that I as a courageous soldier always want to protect the German Reich and its legal institutions, (and) be obedient to the Reichspräsident and to my superiors.

to

I swear by God this holy oath, that I want to ever loyally and sincerely serve my people and fatherland and be prepared as a brave and obedient soldier to risk my life for this oath at any time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichswehreid

Because the way you (not the rest of us, just you apparently) tell an atheist is the way he runs around putting god in everything.

You want some awesome photos of "atheist" SS troops wearing their fezzes, reading books like "Islam und Judentum" and kneeling on their prayer mats while facing Mecca?

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/










Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The Demon Haunted World exboyfil Oct 2017 #1
Are we better off... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #3
Are we worse off? Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #27
So it's not so much believing in fantasy... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #30
I would prefer it if we stopped believing in bullshit altogether. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #97
"Stop believing in bullshit altogether?" yallerdawg Oct 2017 #100
No, I don't believe that. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #102
Doesn't sound like it, does it? whathehell Oct 2017 #77
Sagan went to such lengths In that book... JHan Oct 2017 #26
what is wrong with reality, I wonder? Why always the need for something else? NRaleighLiberal Oct 2017 #2
Years ago on PBS I saw a documentary on legalizing "drugs." yallerdawg Oct 2017 #4
my wife and I have been saying that for many years. We quite love reality - despite it's occasional NRaleighLiberal Oct 2017 #5
Well, what's so wrong with this world and reality that we need to be saved by Jesus? trotsky Oct 2017 #6
If you can document or reference what you just posted... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #7
Would you care to answer my question? trotsky Oct 2017 #8
Again... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #9
OK, I'll grant you your diversion. trotsky Oct 2017 #11
I'm not at all concerned with what you believe - or 'not-believe.' yallerdawg Oct 2017 #13
I do believe you just answered his question Lordquinton Oct 2017 #35
I can think of three reasons tymorial Oct 2017 #82
No side will 'win' this debate in essence. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #83
Understanding is necessary for compassion tymorial Oct 2017 #88
All life has 'value', but one must draw the line with regards to sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #89
Then why not just answer the question? trotsky Oct 2017 #94
This is the same thing as the broad brush aimed at Islam. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #95
Non sequitur. trotsky Oct 2017 #96
"Non sequitur"? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #98
Yep. trotsky Oct 2017 #99
That's my point. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #101
I find religious bigotry reprehensible. Yep. Guilty as charged. trotsky Oct 2017 #103
Do you think that, yallerdawg? Mariana Oct 2017 #10
Sometimes they try to sugar-coat it. trotsky Oct 2017 #12
It does seem pretty clear that many Christians Mariana Oct 2017 #14
My issue is rabid, virulent religious intolerance. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #15
So, do you think non-Christians go to hell? nt. Mariana Oct 2017 #16
Do you think you could be... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #17
Like I said, I'm curious. Mariana Oct 2017 #29
Religious intolerance is usually a one way street Cartoonist Oct 2017 #18
No, you're referring to twisted ideology. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #19
Still a one way street Cartoonist Oct 2017 #20
You really don't like my opinion, do you? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #21
I disagree with it Cartoonist Oct 2017 #22
We have examples of totalitarian states... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #23
Let me know Cartoonist Oct 2017 #24
Baking people in ovens close enough? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #25
Forgive me, but you say "ovens" and I can't think of anything but the Holocaust. Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #31
They weren't burning atheists in the ovens. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #32
You want to talk about Stalin or Mao, you might have something Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #33
Nazis, fascists and Hitler were a religious movement. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #38
Well, it's certainly in the general historical record Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #44
I guess maybe I must have some kind of reading disorder? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #49
It certainly appears to be some kind of reading disorder. Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #58
I'm MSNBC. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #62
Not quite what the facts support. Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #64
Uh-huh. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #66
You sure sound more like an Infowars headline Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #70
You're done with me? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #71
They didn't kill Jews for practicing Judaism. Mariana Oct 2017 #34
Killing millions of Jews and Catholics wasn't about religion. yallerdawg Oct 2017 #39
Killing millions of Jews wasn't about religion. Mariana Oct 2017 #42
My reply: yallerdawg Oct 2017 #53
Thats a pathetic fallacy. Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #90
Now you're actually flat out wrong Lordquinton Oct 2017 #37
Interesting this is an OP about the appeal of "witchcraft and astrology." yallerdawg Oct 2017 #41
It got sidetracked with some ignorant slander accusing atheists of committing the Holocaust Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #47
We almost made it a whole day without a no true scottsman fallacy Lordquinton Oct 2017 #86
The first time he was wrong. Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #45
My reply? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #54
It wasn't relevant the first time, either. Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #60
Not completely anti-religious, selective! atreides1 Oct 2017 #59
Nazis were not atheists. And they didnt execute people Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #51
My reply! yallerdawg Oct 2017 #55
It's all a guilt by association slander Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #67
The Pope practices a "twisted ideology?" Lordquinton Oct 2017 #36
Who is the Pope killing? yallerdawg Oct 2017 #40
Policies kill Cartoonist Oct 2017 #46
The RCCs anti condom policies killed lots of people Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #52
You actually believe that if something is a sin... yallerdawg Oct 2017 #56
Omfg. You need to do minimal research before posting. The rcc Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #91
Why research? Mariana Oct 2017 #92
The Pope's bigotry is well documented here Lordquinton Oct 2017 #85
I don't conclude that 'many' Christians get off on sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #68
Maybe we've had different experiences with Christians. Mariana Oct 2017 #81
It's me. The little wise guy truck driver. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #43
Tee cilla4progress Oct 2017 #57
Thot I read feel the 'bum', then I expanded screen. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #65
Like! cilla4progress Oct 2017 #84
And noted psychologist likely relaxed each evening Voltaire2 Oct 2017 #50
Because the human mind Loki Liesmith Oct 2017 #79
... PoliticAverse Oct 2017 #28
but I though only boomers were into this nonsense DBoon Oct 2017 #61
Sounds good to me! Religion is all fables, politics, superstitions and many out for money! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2017 #63
"Pick up the phone right now sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #72
That's a better deal than the preacher that wanted his flock to buy him an airplane. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2017 #73
After he got shouted down for avarice, sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #74
And said under his breath, "gotta find some dumber ones!" n/t RKP5637 Oct 2017 #75
Sheep led astray. sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #76
If one does' believe', sprinkleeninow Oct 2017 #78
Great, they leave behind one fantasy world for another Bradshaw3 Oct 2017 #69
Agree. If "millennials are ditching religion for ... HeartachesNhangovers Oct 2017 #80
this isn't a millennial issue...(whoever they are)... samnsara Oct 2017 #87
Karl Paul knows his readers. Mariana Oct 2017 #93
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Why millennials are ditch...»Reply #44