Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

61. I believe that it is all semantics.

Reply to AtheistCrusader (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 5, 2018, 12:36 PM

Jan 2018

Some cannot use the word belief to describe something that they actually believe.

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How do we define theism, and atheism? [View all] guillaumeb Jan 2018 OP

You are the only person I know that defines them that way. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #1

This Ohio Dem Jan 2018 #7

Yep. trotsky Jan 2018 #22

I don't fit either definition. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #40

It's pretty simple. trotsky Jan 2018 #75

What I think caused the heat marylandblue Jan 2018 #2

Beliefs are unprovable. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #30

I'll try this one more time, but I imagine you will fight it. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #33

Rarely am I this blunt in a response - but you are just wrong. bitterross Jan 2018 #153

I am sorry but YOU are just wrong. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #156

What if you just say "I don't know?" marylandblue Jan 2018 #157

Seems that believing in a god is a binary. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #158

Apatheist seems to be someone who doesn't care marylandblue Jan 2018 #159

I think that makes you an agnostic atheist Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #160

That is my point. It is binary. bitterross Jan 2018 #162

Pretty Pictures from the ULC and Wikipedia don't make you right. bitterross Jan 2018 #161

Your definition proves my point. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #163

"1 a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods " Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #164

Yes, I read it. bitterross Jan 2018 #167

Again. You make my point. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #168

Why are beliefs unprovable? marylandblue Jan 2018 #49

You can prove some things, others cannot be proven. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #53

Correct, but marylandblue Jan 2018 #55

Are you asking my opinion? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #59

Some beliefs can be proven. marylandblue Jan 2018 #62

We can, at least prove that butter pecan ice cream exists. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #58

Because if he identified "God does not exist" as a statement marylandblue Jan 2018 #151

Big fan of Eris myself. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #166

She was truly awesome outside the gates of Troy. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #172

Lack of belief doesn't require proof. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #52

I agree with that, except marylandblue Jan 2018 #69

At some point it does kinda become that. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #79

I'd take it a step further Lordquinton Jan 2018 #173

You are an atheist. Eko Jan 2018 #3

You have made an excellent point! trixie2 Jan 2018 #4

If you have convinced yourself, I understand. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #31

Nope you are. Eko Jan 2018 #137

This was actually the ancient Roman position before Constantine marylandblue Jan 2018 #150

I never wander into the religion topic trixie2 Jan 2018 #5

A cogent and lucid description of my position as well! Thank you! Moostache Jan 2018 #28

How did you arrive at your position? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #45

Do you believe in Huldufolk? trixie2 Jan 2018 #136

Some believe in them. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #174

But do you believe in them? trixie2 Jan 2018 #175

My entire life. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #179

But are you a huldufolkist or an ahuldufolkist? marylandblue Jan 2018 #182

I think it is exactly as Rush's Geddy Lee sings: yallerdawg Jan 2018 #6

Athiesm is just a non belief. Eko Jan 2018 #8

When I was a child, I believed in Santa Claus. yallerdawg Jan 2018 #9

You make a lot of assumptions there. Eko Jan 2018 #10

When I was a young kid, Eko Jan 2018 #11

Good conversation! yallerdawg Jan 2018 #12

Wow, really? Eko Jan 2018 #13

I mean, some people Eko Jan 2018 #14

You do know that the original lyric was trixie2 Jan 2018 #16

"I couldn't care less." I could not care less, IOW. sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #176

Yes, there is a lot of proselytyzing from one side. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #32

As if calling bald a hair color makes it hair. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #36

I appreciate your efforts to "tone it down" and make it all a more civil conversation... yallerdawg Jan 2018 #54

And I have noticed that when people post here in any positive way about religion, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #56

Rejecting your claim is a form of choice, sure. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #60

I believe that it is all semantics. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #61

Because it's not a belief. It's a lack of belief. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #65

And you can't use belief in God as a statement marylandblue Jan 2018 #152

well we do agree it seems on one thing: your prior attempt was a self inflicted tragedy. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #15

People that have faith, EvilAL Jan 2018 #17

Amazingly harmonius response with others here. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #34

Notice that you didn't avoid mentioning a choir. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #38

Instead of your 'choir' I liken it to your 'peanut gallery'. 😶 sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #178

"Philosophical" Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #18

It's a common error many theists make. trotsky Jan 2018 #24

This post should be pinned at the top of this forum. Great stuff. n/t Fix The Stupid Jan 2018 #25

I mean to say that understanding what theism and atheism are is very basic philosophy. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #26

Ah, good point. trotsky Jan 2018 #29

what he (or she) said rurallib Jan 2018 #27

Great analogy. Eko Jan 2018 #138

More harmony. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #35

You seem to find it unusual when people are in agreement. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #46

I find it interesting that the same tiny group guillaumeb Jan 2018 #51

I find it interesting a theist using the same arguments... Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #66

Not speaking to my point, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #72

I understand your need to feel this way. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #73

Yes, it is. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #74

Oh please. You've been caught doing it plenty. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #81

He did it first!!! guillaumeb Jan 2018 #97

I note that when you say 'most' you seem to actually mean 'me'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #106

No, I mean "most", as in most. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #111

Don't pretend you have a massive silent, approving audience here. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #112

One can hope, but I do not pretend to such things. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #115

I don't think you notice what you are doing either marylandblue Jan 2018 #148

Come on, man. Admit your own fault in this. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #92

Yup. And people can scroll on back and see that history and how it has evolved over time. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #80

I find it interesting that you deem religion worth defending. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #67

Dude, Eko Jan 2018 #139

That is how YOU define them. There is no "we." MineralMan Jan 2018 #19

Right. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #37

Uff da! More gobbledygook.... MineralMan Jan 2018 #43

How kind of you. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #48

Some may say one reply is too many. Sneederbunk Jan 2018 #154

Some may say many things. MineralMan Jan 2018 #155

We make a choice about your claim. We do not have a 'belief'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #68

Position and choice Eko Jan 2018 #140

I understand why you don't want to continue the discussion where it started Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #20

More harmony. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #39

Maybe if everyone thinks the same thing about you Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #42

More coincidence. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #47

I've seen this tactic before. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #84

Others who were driven out by the overwhelming negativity. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #86

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #89

"Others who were driven out by the overwhelming negativity." Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #99

Speaking of groups, there is also a dedicated group for atheists. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #100

I wouldn't go tugging at that thread. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #101

My point remains. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #102

Because there won't be any theists around to test these claims/issues/whatever. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #108

An excellent point. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #113

You have no point. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #129

I came here for a discussion outside my own echo chamber. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #107

Ockham's razor led me to a different conclusion. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #83

Not if you had used it correctly. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #85

Non-overlapping magesteria. You stick to your faithyness and I'll do the philosophy thing. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #87

Razors can be sharp. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #88

Because this needs to be separate: having speech/language is not a prerequisite to thought. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #21

You can think without language? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #41

Of course you can. Jesus. Really? We need to have this discussion? Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #44

Amazing indeed, that you apparently believe this. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #50

You know you just proved my point, right? Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #57

Can you think without words? No, except for needs. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #71

Of course I can. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #78

We can experience and recognize basic needs and inputs. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #82

Again, not true. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #91

As we learn language, our ability to think and express those thoughts increases. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #94

We agree and disagree Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #119

Humans have a need to communicate. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #121

I will also agree with that. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #123

A predisposition based on our ability. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #125

But you already tripped over the problem. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #126

But we think becasue we have language, and because we have experience. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #130

No. We have language because we think. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #131

No problem, it is a good response. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #132

I don't think Chomsky or I would agree with your second sentence, Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #127

Wrong again. MineralMan Jan 2018 #103

Well, that settles it. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #104

So music does not convey abstract thoughts Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #143

The Great Gig In The Sky. The entirety of Fantasia. Springdanz. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #169

I can think of things that don't have words to express them. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #90

I would ask for an example, but since you have no words for these things, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #95

Can you seriously not conceive of a concept, in the universe, that has no existing name? AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #105

Again, since you cannot give me an example of these unameable things, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #109

How embarrassing for you. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #110

You cannot imagine. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #114

In the 1920's it was postulated that there might be relativistic particles with no mass AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #116

And how do they formulate and examine these abstract concepts? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #118

I don't need words to represent a thing until I need to communicate it to another person. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #124

I agree. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #128

There is a concept in music called tonal color. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #133

Your ear was "aware", but had no langauge to describe it? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #134

Exactly. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #135

You were already given examples already marylandblue Jan 2018 #146

You're right. I suspect many people don't realize how important language is to thinking. Towlie Jan 2018 #63

Of course language influences thinking. That's an intro to semantics course concept. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #64

Yes, we cannot have thoughts of any clarity or coherence without language. That's what I'm saying. Towlie Jan 2018 #70

Feels like now we just have a quibble about "clarity" and "coherence" Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #76

You obviously misunderstood Towlie. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #93

Towlie can speak for themself Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #96

And actually did, in #63. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #98

Yes. Towlie and I were having a discussion. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #117

You could simply admit the obvious. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #120

I have responded to you in our discussion. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #122

Towlie didn't even understand the movie Arrival. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #171

Arrival (thought I'd keep the two concepts distinct). Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #77

I just watched it last night on Amazon. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #165

You miss the point of Arrival marylandblue Jan 2018 #147

So how did humans come up with speech Eko Jan 2018 #141

Have you ever heard of Helen Keller? Mariana Jan 2018 #142

There are many people on the autism spectrum Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #144

This assertion that only people who have language Mariana Jan 2018 #145

I guess the important thing is that you have chosen definitions that work for you. trotsky Jan 2018 #23

another great episode of hole digging! Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #149

I'm always impressed by the progress he continues to make when he hits bedrock. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #170

Guillaume, mon ami, I just broke my daisy chain promise to stay outta this sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #177

You are forgiven. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #180

➕Thank God for His Mercies. They are new every day.➕ sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #181