Religion

Cuthbert Allgood

(5,339 posts)

77. Arrival (thought I'd keep the two concepts distinct).

Fri Jan 5, 2018, 01:08 PM

Jan 2018

I don't think it is that they couldn't understand our language, but they knew that we needed to understand theirs in order to be able to figure out the technology they were giving us. So they let us just figure it out and then left when we did. It's not that we were superior, but that we needed that understanding for things to work.

The short story is really good and very different in a lot of ways. It's hard sci-fi, though, which isn't for everyone.

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How do we define theism, and atheism? [View all] guillaumeb Jan 2018 OP

You are the only person I know that defines them that way. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #1

This Ohio Dem Jan 2018 #7

Yep. trotsky Jan 2018 #22

I don't fit either definition. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #40

It's pretty simple. trotsky Jan 2018 #75

What I think caused the heat marylandblue Jan 2018 #2

Beliefs are unprovable. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #30

I'll try this one more time, but I imagine you will fight it. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #33

Rarely am I this blunt in a response - but you are just wrong. bitterross Jan 2018 #153

I am sorry but YOU are just wrong. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #156

What if you just say "I don't know?" marylandblue Jan 2018 #157

Seems that believing in a god is a binary. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #158

Apatheist seems to be someone who doesn't care marylandblue Jan 2018 #159

I think that makes you an agnostic atheist Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #160

That is my point. It is binary. bitterross Jan 2018 #162

Pretty Pictures from the ULC and Wikipedia don't make you right. bitterross Jan 2018 #161

Your definition proves my point. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #163

"1 a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods " Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #164

Yes, I read it. bitterross Jan 2018 #167

Again. You make my point. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #168

Why are beliefs unprovable? marylandblue Jan 2018 #49

You can prove some things, others cannot be proven. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #53

Correct, but marylandblue Jan 2018 #55

Are you asking my opinion? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #59

Some beliefs can be proven. marylandblue Jan 2018 #62

We can, at least prove that butter pecan ice cream exists. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #58

Because if he identified "God does not exist" as a statement marylandblue Jan 2018 #151

Big fan of Eris myself. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #166

She was truly awesome outside the gates of Troy. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #172

Lack of belief doesn't require proof. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #52

I agree with that, except marylandblue Jan 2018 #69

At some point it does kinda become that. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #79

I'd take it a step further Lordquinton Jan 2018 #173

You are an atheist. Eko Jan 2018 #3

You have made an excellent point! trixie2 Jan 2018 #4

If you have convinced yourself, I understand. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #31

Nope you are. Eko Jan 2018 #137

This was actually the ancient Roman position before Constantine marylandblue Jan 2018 #150

I never wander into the religion topic trixie2 Jan 2018 #5

A cogent and lucid description of my position as well! Thank you! Moostache Jan 2018 #28

How did you arrive at your position? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #45

Do you believe in Huldufolk? trixie2 Jan 2018 #136

Some believe in them. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #174

But do you believe in them? trixie2 Jan 2018 #175

My entire life. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #179

But are you a huldufolkist or an ahuldufolkist? marylandblue Jan 2018 #182

I think it is exactly as Rush's Geddy Lee sings: yallerdawg Jan 2018 #6

Athiesm is just a non belief. Eko Jan 2018 #8

When I was a child, I believed in Santa Claus. yallerdawg Jan 2018 #9

You make a lot of assumptions there. Eko Jan 2018 #10

When I was a young kid, Eko Jan 2018 #11

Good conversation! yallerdawg Jan 2018 #12

Wow, really? Eko Jan 2018 #13

I mean, some people Eko Jan 2018 #14

You do know that the original lyric was trixie2 Jan 2018 #16

"I couldn't care less." I could not care less, IOW. sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #176

Yes, there is a lot of proselytyzing from one side. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #32

As if calling bald a hair color makes it hair. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #36

I appreciate your efforts to "tone it down" and make it all a more civil conversation... yallerdawg Jan 2018 #54

And I have noticed that when people post here in any positive way about religion, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #56

Rejecting your claim is a form of choice, sure. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #60

I believe that it is all semantics. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #61

Because it's not a belief. It's a lack of belief. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #65

And you can't use belief in God as a statement marylandblue Jan 2018 #152

well we do agree it seems on one thing: your prior attempt was a self inflicted tragedy. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #15

People that have faith, EvilAL Jan 2018 #17

Amazingly harmonius response with others here. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #34

Notice that you didn't avoid mentioning a choir. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #38

Instead of your 'choir' I liken it to your 'peanut gallery'. 😶 sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #178

"Philosophical" Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #18

It's a common error many theists make. trotsky Jan 2018 #24

This post should be pinned at the top of this forum. Great stuff. n/t Fix The Stupid Jan 2018 #25

I mean to say that understanding what theism and atheism are is very basic philosophy. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #26

Ah, good point. trotsky Jan 2018 #29

what he (or she) said rurallib Jan 2018 #27

Great analogy. Eko Jan 2018 #138

More harmony. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #35

You seem to find it unusual when people are in agreement. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #46

I find it interesting that the same tiny group guillaumeb Jan 2018 #51

I find it interesting a theist using the same arguments... Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #66

Not speaking to my point, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #72

I understand your need to feel this way. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #73

Yes, it is. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #74

Oh please. You've been caught doing it plenty. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #81

He did it first!!! guillaumeb Jan 2018 #97

I note that when you say 'most' you seem to actually mean 'me'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #106

No, I mean "most", as in most. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #111

Don't pretend you have a massive silent, approving audience here. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #112

One can hope, but I do not pretend to such things. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #115

I don't think you notice what you are doing either marylandblue Jan 2018 #148

Come on, man. Admit your own fault in this. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #92

Yup. And people can scroll on back and see that history and how it has evolved over time. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #80

I find it interesting that you deem religion worth defending. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #67

Dude, Eko Jan 2018 #139

That is how YOU define them. There is no "we." MineralMan Jan 2018 #19

Right. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #37

Uff da! More gobbledygook.... MineralMan Jan 2018 #43

How kind of you. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #48

Some may say one reply is too many. Sneederbunk Jan 2018 #154

Some may say many things. MineralMan Jan 2018 #155

We make a choice about your claim. We do not have a 'belief'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #68

Position and choice Eko Jan 2018 #140

I understand why you don't want to continue the discussion where it started Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #20

More harmony. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #39

Maybe if everyone thinks the same thing about you Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #42

More coincidence. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #47

I've seen this tactic before. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #84

Others who were driven out by the overwhelming negativity. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #86

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #89

"Others who were driven out by the overwhelming negativity." Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #99

Speaking of groups, there is also a dedicated group for atheists. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #100

I wouldn't go tugging at that thread. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #101

My point remains. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #102

Because there won't be any theists around to test these claims/issues/whatever. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #108

An excellent point. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #113

You have no point. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2018 #129

I came here for a discussion outside my own echo chamber. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #107

Ockham's razor led me to a different conclusion. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #83

Not if you had used it correctly. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #85

Non-overlapping magesteria. You stick to your faithyness and I'll do the philosophy thing. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #87

Razors can be sharp. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #88

Because this needs to be separate: having speech/language is not a prerequisite to thought. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #21

You can think without language? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #41

Of course you can. Jesus. Really? We need to have this discussion? Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #44

Amazing indeed, that you apparently believe this. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #50

You know you just proved my point, right? Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #57

Can you think without words? No, except for needs. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #71

Of course I can. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #78

We can experience and recognize basic needs and inputs. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #82

Again, not true. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #91

As we learn language, our ability to think and express those thoughts increases. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #94

We agree and disagree Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #119

Humans have a need to communicate. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #121

I will also agree with that. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #123

A predisposition based on our ability. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #125

But you already tripped over the problem. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #126

But we think becasue we have language, and because we have experience. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #130

No. We have language because we think. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #131

No problem, it is a good response. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #132

I don't think Chomsky or I would agree with your second sentence, Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #127

Wrong again. MineralMan Jan 2018 #103

Well, that settles it. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #104

So music does not convey abstract thoughts Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #143

The Great Gig In The Sky. The entirety of Fantasia. Springdanz. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #169

I can think of things that don't have words to express them. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #90

I would ask for an example, but since you have no words for these things, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #95

Can you seriously not conceive of a concept, in the universe, that has no existing name? AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #105

Again, since you cannot give me an example of these unameable things, guillaumeb Jan 2018 #109

How embarrassing for you. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #110

You cannot imagine. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #114

In the 1920's it was postulated that there might be relativistic particles with no mass AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #116

And how do they formulate and examine these abstract concepts? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #118

I don't need words to represent a thing until I need to communicate it to another person. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #124

I agree. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #128

There is a concept in music called tonal color. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #133

Your ear was "aware", but had no langauge to describe it? guillaumeb Jan 2018 #134

Exactly. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #135

You were already given examples already marylandblue Jan 2018 #146

You're right. I suspect many people don't realize how important language is to thinking. Towlie Jan 2018 #63

Of course language influences thinking. That's an intro to semantics course concept. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #64

Yes, we cannot have thoughts of any clarity or coherence without language. That's what I'm saying. Towlie Jan 2018 #70

Feels like now we just have a quibble about "clarity" and "coherence" Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #76

You obviously misunderstood Towlie. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #93

Towlie can speak for themself Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #96

And actually did, in #63. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #98

Yes. Towlie and I were having a discussion. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #117

You could simply admit the obvious. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #120

I have responded to you in our discussion. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #122

Towlie didn't even understand the movie Arrival. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #171

Arrival (thought I'd keep the two concepts distinct). Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2018 #77

I just watched it last night on Amazon. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #165

You miss the point of Arrival marylandblue Jan 2018 #147

So how did humans come up with speech Eko Jan 2018 #141

Have you ever heard of Helen Keller? Mariana Jan 2018 #142

There are many people on the autism spectrum Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #144

This assertion that only people who have language Mariana Jan 2018 #145

I guess the important thing is that you have chosen definitions that work for you. trotsky Jan 2018 #23

another great episode of hole digging! Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #149

I'm always impressed by the progress he continues to make when he hits bedrock. AtheistCrusader Jan 2018 #170

Guillaume, mon ami, I just broke my daisy chain promise to stay outta this sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #177

You are forgiven. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #180

➕Thank God for His Mercies. They are new every day.➕ sprinkleeninow Jan 2018 #181