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Religion

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Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:54 PM Dec 2011

Why is Dr. Dawkins and some others such controversial figures? [View all]

This is something I simply fail to understand. I wanted to talk about Dawkins in particular since he's the most visible "face" of atheism in mainstream media, but this also applies to others. Now, frankly I've seen and read Dawkins quite extensively for years, even as far back as when was a theist because as a Catholic I was taught that evolution was a fact, and I was fascinated by it and wanted too learn more.

The thing is, that even when Dawkins became more outspoken as an atheist, I didn't see so much a change in tone as a change in outspokenness. Even in his earliest works he was dismissive of religion in general. But the fascinating bit is more recent, and it doesn't have to do with him, in particular, but in his detractors. I'm not saying he's above criticism, however, it seems to be so over the top its almost comical if it weren't for the fact that too many people would put words into action if they could.

The first thing that needs to be cleared up is this, Dawkins is, first and foremost, a scientist, and one who is an educator of science to the general public at large, that was his job for years at university. In this sense he is no different than, for example, Neil Degrass Tyson in the United States, and in this regard, they are probably equally as popular to the general public in their respective countries, Dr. Tyson probably less so in the United States due to the abhorrent state of our science education.

Dr. Tyson is also less controversial, at least in the United States, even though both him and Dr. Dawkins are both nonreligious and dismissive of religious claims in general. Tyson, however, is notably less critical of religion, I don't think because he views it as less ridiculous but rather that his field of study, astrophysics is not considered such a direct confrontation to religious beliefs, and is also so much more esoteric that many don't understand it, and when he does explain it, its in rather simplified terms.

Dr. Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, and hence, to many religious people, his field of study is a direct threat to their dogma. His field is, as a consequence, under direct attack by many people who use misinformation, lies, and ignorance as their weapons. In a sense, Dawkins is put in an unenviable position of being on the defensive so much more often. In addition I think a cultural difference also comes into play, the fact that being critical of religion is more acceptable in Great Britain than in the United States. Tyson, wanting to popularize science to a country where the overwhelming majority is Christian, wouldn't want to directly antagonize the religious, but rather chip away at the edges of non-rational belief, for example, in his staunch criticism of astrology.

Yet Dawkins is, at least in his home country, decidedly less controversial than he is in the United States, again, reflecting differences in cultural attitudes. This is reflected in the visceral and vicious reactions he gets whenever a statement of his is reflected in media that is open for all to comment on. The fringe religious in Britain and a large segment of the American commentators compare him to being a Grand Wizard of the KKK, condemn him to hell, post death threats, etc. Gross overreactions to his opinions on religion and it seems that you would think that he would never be a guy who gets invited on children shows in Great Britain to explain the evolution of the eye, but he is. Of course, he courts controversy as well, because it increases the visibility of his arguments and of the facts about evolution and science he wishes to popularize.

Of course, he's also a victim of quote mining, and misstatements attributed to him, in fact, I would say that his most staunchest detractors never even bothered to watch a single show or talk by him or any that he participated in. The worse you can say about Dawkins is that he doesn't suffer fools gladly, especially when it comes to creationists, he shuts them down eloquently and passionately. The most memorable was when he shut down Ted Haggard(before his, um, fall, for lack of a better word) when he said he believed that we didn't come about through random chance, and the look on Dawkins face was memorable, its like Ted Haggard grew two heads, or said the world was flat, that's how idiotic the argument was, and Dawkins told him this very simply.

Of course, Ted, being a "man of faith" simply decided to continue believing his lie. But to put it simply, is Dawkins really the hatemonger so many claim he is? I don't think so, above criticism? Of course not, indeed I don't agree with him on all points, but in balance I really don't understand the hatred so many espouse against him.

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You have a point, but you could easily say the same thing about Tim Tebow RZM Dec 2011 #1
Don't know, never followed that particular controversy... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #5
This is random thoughts, so maybe not as eloquent as I could be. Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #7
I don't think he's so controversial over here in the U.K. mr blur Dec 2011 #2
Exactly, also a big fan of David Attenborough myself... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #4
"Fundamentalist materialist" tama Dec 2011 #8
A fellow "Scientist" who believes in telepathy and generational memory... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #9
...or like Ernst Mayr who also disagreed with Dawkins Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #19
Being both tama Dec 2011 #21
A great experimentalist? He derives conclusions from... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #27
Are talking about the same guy? tama Dec 2011 #33
Ancedotal evidence is useless without repeatability, do you understand... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #42
Read again. tama Dec 2011 #48
Who are these "authoritarian orthodoxies" the ones who couldn't... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #54
Perhaps tama Dec 2011 #55
An honest person would say the results are inconclusive... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #61
That's what Sheldrake tama Dec 2011 #63
What evidence? Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #75
Belief tama Dec 2011 #77
There is no valid edhopper Dec 2011 #14
It is quite common tama Dec 2011 #22
Stop misrepresenting science. You can believe whatever the fuck you want... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #28
Stop misrepresenting science. You can believe whatever the fuck you want... tama Dec 2011 #34
Like telepathy edhopper Dec 2011 #50
Like the belief tama Dec 2011 #51
Oh good edhopper Dec 2011 #64
To tell you the truth tama Dec 2011 #70
So basically you got nothing as far as evidence is concerned? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #76
How was your day? tama Dec 2011 #78
He's willing to take them on. rrneck Dec 2011 #3
Because he's critical of religion, and possibly also because he's pro-evolution LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #6
"...under direct attack by many people who use misinformation, lies, and ignorance as their weapons. Jim__ Dec 2011 #10
This is interesting... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #11
That is the conclusion of the argument. Jim__ Dec 2011 #12
You attack the whole Dawkins's God Delution based on a paragraph made to be a 'filler'? Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #25
No. I'm merely pointing to one paragraph that demonstrates why his book was attacked. Jim__ Dec 2011 #29
So that justifies death threats? Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #32
There are people who like philosophy tama Dec 2011 #39
I prefer conversations that are useful and relevant to the discussion at hand... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #41
You are entitled to your opinion tama Dec 2011 #43
"Fuck Kant"? tama Dec 2011 #38
The difference between me and a coffee house philosopher is... Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #46
You are always wrong tama Dec 2011 #52
... Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #58
First mover tama Dec 2011 #23
Big Bang cosmology doesn't require either "metaphysical" presumption... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #26
Indeed tama Dec 2011 #36
Then all things in motion do not need to be put in motion. edhopper Dec 2011 #16
What is the basis for your "then"? Jim__ Dec 2011 #18
Aquinas says all thing must be put in motion. edhopper Dec 2011 #20
No, he doesn't: Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another. Jim__ Dec 2011 #30
Poor phrasing on my part. Emphasis on put, as in - all things in motion MUST be put in motion. edhopper Dec 2011 #49
Dismantled Aquinas'argument? Jim__ Dec 2011 #56
I see that he did. edhopper Dec 2011 #65
Big Bang tama Dec 2011 #24
What does the Big Bang have to do with a branch of philosophy? Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #31
What does 'causality" have to do with a branch of philosophy tama Dec 2011 #35
Science moved beyond philosophy by the late 19th century... Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #40
And philosophy came back tama Dec 2011 #44
So not only are you misrepresenting science, but history as well? Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #53
20th century tama Dec 2011 #57
Since when were all of them philosophers? Humanist_Activist Dec 2011 #60
For the purpose of this discussion tama Dec 2011 #62
What you don't seem to understand in your all too broad edhopper Dec 2011 #66
Perhaps you are unawere tama Dec 2011 #71
Quite well aware edhopper Dec 2011 #72
Partial explanation tama Dec 2011 #74
They threaten the power structure. Deep13 Dec 2011 #13
"Challenging people's core values and beliefs always makes them a bit grouchy." tama Dec 2011 #37
Simply because he is an outspoken atheist. Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #15
Spoken like a true believer. MarkCharles Dec 2011 #45
Ahem... Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #47
Then you FAILED to state how. MarkCharles Dec 2011 #68
Don't give yourself a heart attack over nothing. Lost-in-FL Dec 2011 #69
MC, you might get a little less needlessly upset if you go into A&A and write iris27 Dec 2011 #59
Why would I spoil the fun ? MarkCharles Dec 2011 #67
Pretty sure everyone else got it, because most here do take note of who posts what. iris27 Dec 2011 #73
I can't say I read the whole thing--- digonswine Dec 2011 #17
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