Religion

brooklynite

(96,882 posts)

87. If you plan to stay in the Church...why do you disobey it?

Wed May 16, 2012, 02:21 PM

May 2012

Your positions on cultural issues that the Church has deemed important are contrary to the Church's dogma. I don't think they'll hold it against you (unless you become an elected official), but on what basis do you justify it? Churches are (for the most part) institutions built around belief in a GOD and belief that that God wants you to behave a certain way. In the case of the Catholic Church, you believe that the Church is a direct offshoot of God's disciples and has a leader who determines how to interpret God's rules. You're free to disagree with the Pope and still call yourself religious, but I don't see how you can still call yourself Catholic.

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I�m Not Quitting the Church [View all] cbayer May 2012 OP

Well, E.J. is wrong .... earthside May 2012 #1

"Mah Honey only hit me the once. He's a good man really. He works hard. He won't beat me...again" dmallind May 2012 #2

"I know he's a bully, but he likes ME". PassingFair May 2012 #3

Godwin's law is a farce Phlem May 2012 #8

No comment from you?? Angry Dragon May 2012 #4

Sure. I found it interesting to read a counter reply to the FFRF ad. cbayer May 2012 #5

I tend to be on the side of FFRF Angry Dragon May 2012 #6

Really? Who would have guessed that? cbayer May 2012 #7

Yes Angry Dragon May 2012 #11

Interesting? Yes, but only as interesting as it is flawed. (nt) eqfan592 May 2012 #16

And only as flawed as the FFRF ad, imo. cbayer May 2012 #17

To a degree perhaps. eqfan592 May 2012 #18

I see it as a very complicated decision that individuals have to make while weighing cbayer May 2012 #19

Nobody ever said the decision would be easy or simple. eqfan592 May 2012 #20

They also see that they are supporting the good acts of the church. cbayer May 2012 #21

Thats the problem. rrneck May 2012 #38

I do see your point. eqfan592 May 2012 #40

So, let me ask you this. cbayer May 2012 #83

I think liberal Christians should be Episcopalians Goblinmonger May 2012 #84

I've seen you talk about liberal christian churches. I'm sure any one of them would welcome... eqfan592 May 2012 #86

While I have a fondness for the UU churches, they really don't fill the needs of true cbayer May 2012 #90

I believe they were asking people to leave the RCC, not all churches in general. eqfan592 May 2012 #94

I do know some christians who participate in UU churches, and you are correct. cbayer May 2012 #105

Two questions about something you just said... laconicsax May 2012 #106

Simply, people want to congregate and worship with other people who share their cbayer May 2012 #117

Thanks, that's what I thought you may have meant. n/t laconicsax May 2012 #138

I have been telling Catholics for a very long time now, SheilaT May 2012 #9

The problem with E. J. Dionne, Jr. and others like him... rexcat May 2012 #10

Me either. rug May 2012 #12

Had much luck changing the Church yet? laconicsax May 2012 #13

That's not my priority. rug May 2012 #14

So what is it then? laconicsax May 2012 #15

Yes, that's it precisely. rug May 2012 #22

What are you doing to stop this homophobic and misogynistic institution AlbertCat May 2012 #23

Thank you for speaking for laconicsax. rug May 2012 #24

Among other things, I don't associate with it, defend it online, or support it financially. laconicsax May 2012 #25

Yes, those are things you do not do. rug May 2012 #26

Do I need to prove that I work against the Church more than you support it? laconicsax May 2012 #27

As a matter of fact, yes, since the subject you broach is personal hypocrisy. rug May 2012 #28

Ah, you're going to try the tu quoque route. laconicsax May 2012 #31

I'm merely following you. rug May 2012 #34

You stopped following me after you dodged my question in #15. laconicsax May 2012 #36

It's a bogus question as you well know. rug May 2012 #37

Sorry, rug. This isn't about me. laconicsax May 2012 #39

No, this particular subthread is entirely about you. rug May 2012 #43

No, rug. You may have been trying to make it about me, but it isn't and never was. laconicsax May 2012 #44

Wow. trotsky May 2012 #47

Tell me this. rug May 2012 #48

Sorry, but your premise is false. eqfan592 May 2012 #51

You can try to keep pointing that out to him... trotsky May 2012 #52

Oh, good. Tell me what corner I'm in. rug May 2012 #55

That's his premise not mine. rug May 2012 #53

Impressive. Masterful, even. daaron May 2012 #60

What is his argument? rug May 2012 #61

Well, following the subthread back Goblinmonger May 2012 #63

Following it forward, rug May 2012 #66

You keep using that word... eqfan592 May 2012 #72

Let me check. rug May 2012 #77

No it wasn't about that. Goblinmonger May 2012 #80

Therefore belonging to a "sexist and homophobic" institution makes its members sexist and homophobic rug May 2012 #97

Well since you asked for it twice, here it is twice. Goblinmonger May 2012 #100

"You may or may not be sexist and homophobic." rug May 2012 #101

Yep, that's true. Goblinmonger May 2012 #109

Therefore practicing Catholics are, ipso facto, supporters of bigotry? rug May 2012 #112

Yes. If they support the church with time and money Goblinmonger May 2012 #116

How does one support bigotry without being a bigot? rug May 2012 #118

Here's a way. Goblinmonger May 2012 #123

And why would a truly progressive liberal (not to be confused with a true progressive liberal) rug May 2012 #125

I have no idea. Why do you? n/t Goblinmonger May 2012 #127

Which is it? Are you calling me a truly progressive liberal, a supporter of bigotry, rug May 2012 #130

Well Goblinmonger May 2012 #134

So, since your effort to get a post hidden has failed Goblinmonger May 2012 #137

For one thing, I reject your description. rug May 2012 #139

So it isn't a hate group when it comes Goblinmonger May 2012 #154

Are you calling me a supporter of bigotry? rug May 2012 #121

Well, if I am correct in assuming that Goblinmonger May 2012 #124

And do you call any Catholic who attends Mass and donates a supporter of bigotry? rug May 2012 #128

I don't go out of my way to "call" them that Goblinmonger May 2012 #129

Do you consider Catholics who remain Catholic to be supporters of bigotry? rug May 2012 #131

How many times do I need to answer this? Goblinmonger May 2012 #133

Heads up, someone's trying to knock you out of this thread.... Eyerish May 2012 #135

Yep, I knew that was where it was headed. Goblinmonger May 2012 #136

Not exactly a counter to the point made. eqfan592 May 2012 #110

What is the point made? rug May 2012 #119

I am very confused by you. cbayer May 2012 #82

I can't agree with the implication that one must be an atheist in order to make the point made by... eqfan592 May 2012 #85

I suppose I could clarify, but nobody's going to like it. daaron May 2012 #92

You can post wherever you want. cbayer May 2012 #98

Thanks & no problem. daaron May 2012 #107

Ignoring your false dilemma... trotsky May 2012 #35

Well put. nt eqfan592 May 2012 #41

If you look at the facts, the Church is growing, not shrinking, numerically and globally. rug May 2012 #42

Yes, of course it's growing in the third world. trotsky May 2012 #46

"What difference has it made for liberal Catholics to 'fight from within'?" rug May 2012 #49

I'm sorry you refuse to see the damage your church is doing. trotsky May 2012 #50

Stick with a). rug May 2012 #54

WTF? trotsky May 2012 #56

So there is nothing else? Is that correct? rug May 2012 #57

It's attitude toward birth control in the 3rd World. Goblinmonger May 2012 #58

Its attitude toward birth control in the third world is the same as its attitude all over the world. rug May 2012 #59

So when they tell people in Africa Goblinmonger May 2012 #62

Sure that's a problem. But it's a problem easily dealt with. rug May 2012 #64

Why hasn't it been dealt with, then? trotsky May 2012 #68

Maybe you should ask the governments where it's happening. rug May 2012 #70

The Catholic Church wields too much power. trotsky May 2012 #73

I thought you claimed it had no secular power. rug May 2012 #76

Nope, never said that. trotsky May 2012 #88

Get back to me when you solve it. n/t Goblinmonger May 2012 #78

Not my job. rug May 2012 #79

So keep giving your time and money to the organization. Goblinmonger May 2012 #81

Therefore, Catholics must leave the Catholic Church or they're bigots? rug May 2012 #96

Nope. Goblinmonger May 2012 #99

Therefore, those that attend Mass and put their money in the basket are bigots? rug May 2012 #103

I don't know if they are bigots because I don't know them. Goblinmonger May 2012 #111

Practicing Catrholics are enablers of bigotry? rug May 2012 #114

There's plenty more! trotsky May 2012 #65

Where is it? rug May 2012 #67

Your game isn't working. trotsky May 2012 #69

Because that's all you've got. rug May 2012 #71

Keep trying to play your game. At least everyone else sees it for the ruse it is. trotsky May 2012 #74

Uh huh. rug May 2012 #75

Actually, the person going to lengths is you. trotsky May 2012 #89

Demur all you want. Calling Catholics enablers of a ciminal hate group is bigotry. rug May 2012 #95

Even if you are enabling a hate group? Goblinmonger May 2012 #102

Are you now equating the RCC with the KKK? rug May 2012 #104

No, your attempts to make this about me are getting more desperate. Goblinmonger May 2012 #113

Your analogy compared the RCC to the KKK. rug May 2012 #115

No, it didn't. Goblinmonger May 2012 #120

Speaking of obfuscation, explain how a supporter of bigotry is not a bigot. rug May 2012 #122

How about you just focus on one Goblinmonger May 2012 #126

I'm responding to your posts to me. rug May 2012 #132

Wait...you're demanding that Goblinmonger explain how your actions don't make you a bigot? laconicsax May 2012 #140

If you keep twisting words you'll hurt your neck. rug May 2012 #141

I'll give an answer, even though you didn't ask it directly of me (yet). trotsky May 2012 #143

So, only Catholics who are not members of the Catholic Church do not support bigotry? rug May 2012 #146

Oh, Catholics who are not members of the church (which is a bit contradictory, but whatever)... trotsky May 2012 #147

On that note of clarity, I'll depart. rug May 2012 #148

Sorry to see you give up. trotsky May 2012 #150

Goblinmonger already explained how you aren't necessarily a bigot and you attacked him. laconicsax May 2012 #151

So you believe that Catholics may belong to the Catholic Church and be neither bigots nor enablers. rug May 2012 #152

Everything I've posted in this thread is consistent. laconicsax May 2012 #153

Definition time trotsky May 2012 #142

These are easy. rug May 2012 #145

I'd like you to explain how giving your time and money to your church DOESN'T give it power trotsky May 2012 #149

If you hadn't been born Catholic, would you become one? n/t dimbear May 2012 #29

My best friend in New Orleans did. And my son is probably going to. cbayer May 2012 #30

I know it happens, people do enter the church of their own volition, but that's trending down. dimbear May 2012 #32

I'm not sure about trends. cbayer May 2012 #33

My parents are rather proud lapsed Catholics... Humanist_Activist May 2012 #45

If you plan to stay in the Church...why do you disobey it? brooklynite May 2012 #87

You are directing this at the author of the article, right? cbayer May 2012 #91

Yes, but I think it applies to any Liberal Catholic brooklynite May 2012 #93

It's often a conflict. Many American Catholics don't hew to all the Vatican edicts. pinto May 2012 #108

An important quote here: trotsky May 2012 #144

The guy misses the point ButterflyBlood May 2012 #155