Religion

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)

97. Not really that accepted

Tue Apr 17, 2018, 09:53 PM

Apr 2018

We don't have any really contemporary accounts of the Jesus character. None. The earliest we've got is Josephus, and there's a fairly well-developed argument even that was a later insertion.

We have no particular reason to think the Jesus character ever actually existed. The purported witnesses all wrote decades after the alleged events, and they really go out of their way to look like a bunch of raving lunatics. For example, Matthew 27:52-53 talks about lots of zombies wandering around town for a while, which is the sort of thing you'd assume somebody else would have noticed and be able to corroborate.

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Why some theists insist atheism is a belief system [View all] Major Nikon Apr 2018 OP

And the idea of "belief" gets twisted even more by theists.. Permanut Apr 2018 #1

I believe I'll have another beer, therefore I'm a believer Major Nikon Apr 2018 #2

I'm tangled-up in the semantics. TomSlick Apr 2018 #3

Atheism and agnosticism address separate questions. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #4

It seems that what you are describing is "hard agnosticism," that it is impossible to know TomSlick Apr 2018 #5

Atheism doesn't require certainty. Mariana Apr 2018 #7

No, it doesn't! Brainstormy Apr 2018 #65

No, what I'm describing is agnostic atheism. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #12

Exactly. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #27

Hold the phone... tonedevil Apr 2018 #75

I'm certain that some particular gods don't exist. Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #79

I am certain there is no god. Eko Apr 2018 #78

While it is not correct TomSlick Apr 2018 #84

I never said that it could be proven that there was no god. Eko Apr 2018 #87

Your example of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus if useful for two reasons. TomSlick Apr 2018 #88

Why is it demeaning? Eko Apr 2018 #89

Come on. TomSlick Apr 2018 #90

There is actually a lot of proof Eko Apr 2018 #91

Yes, but Saint Nicholas died in the fourth century CE. TomSlick Apr 2018 #92

Didnt Jesus die also? Eko Apr 2018 #94

Certainly. That seems to be a historically accepted fact. TomSlick Apr 2018 #95

No, not quite. But we will move on from the historical part. Eko Apr 2018 #96

I am not aware of a serious historical argument that Jesus did not exist. TomSlick Apr 2018 #100

Plenty of them out there, try google. Eko Apr 2018 #101

Your Wikipedia thread leads to: TomSlick Apr 2018 #103

No, I guess we arent. Eko Apr 2018 #105

You would be doing both of us a favor Eko Apr 2018 #109

And you understand none of those are contemporary, right? Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #104

Not really that accepted Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #97

Correct. Eko Apr 2018 #98

Not really. TomSlick Apr 2018 #106

Their accounts include a bunch of zombies wandering around town. Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #108

I also dont think your premise Eko Apr 2018 #93

And last but not least at all. Eko Apr 2018 #99

I think I prefer "imperfect." TomSlick Apr 2018 #107

:) Eko Apr 2018 #111

I'm tangled up in the semantics of the word "god". smirkymonkey Apr 2018 #116

Interesting question that. TomSlick Apr 2018 #118

Describing and dealing with beliefs Igel Apr 2018 #6

If I'm tracking, I agree. TomSlick Apr 2018 #8

I think most do assume good faith and intelligence in others Mariana Apr 2018 #10

The very best you can say about them is they have a closed mind Major Nikon Apr 2018 #11

It's easy to rathole someone else when it reinforces your own point of view Major Nikon Apr 2018 #9

Because the best apologetic they could come up with after two centuries of stagnation is... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #13

Nailed it. n/t trotsky Apr 2018 #14

The only argument that's really used is being upset Lordquinton Apr 2018 #15

To say "there is no God" is EXACTLY as much an act of faith as to say "there is a God". Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2018 #16

Lol.... Adrahil Apr 2018 #17

Its really just a proof of the OP Major Nikon Apr 2018 #19

I don't actually mind the appalling ignorance displayed. Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #20

So right. NT Adrahil Apr 2018 #21

Like I said upthread Mariana Apr 2018 #22

give it up. You're not likely to get through. Brainstormy Apr 2018 #66

I dont agree with both of your premises Major Nikon Apr 2018 #18

And you're wrong. trotsky Apr 2018 #23

Is your statement designed to discourage dialogue? guillaumeb Apr 2018 #29

You'd be an expert on that, for sure. n/t trotsky Apr 2018 #30

I thought so. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #35

Thanks for another sermon in hypocrisy Lordquinton Apr 2018 #49

Given the many demonstration of it in this thread, guillaumeb Apr 2018 #51

You should pay more attention to your own words then Lordquinton Apr 2018 #53

Speaking of which, guillaumeb Apr 2018 #55

Oh, did I miss one of your replies? Lordquinton Apr 2018 #56

You did miss something. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #57

Can you show me where you posted then? Lordquinton Apr 2018 #73

You could read the entire thread. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #74

I figured I'd just ask the source Lordquinton Apr 2018 #76

Most atheists are familiar with statements like yours. MineralMan Apr 2018 #25

Your 2 statements are identical in outcome. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #28

No, they are not equivalent. MineralMan Apr 2018 #32

Again, with insults. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #37

No insults. Observations after long experience. MineralMan Apr 2018 #44

More insults disguised as being helpful. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #50

I read French quite fluently, thanks. MineralMan Apr 2018 #58

So he's a plagiarist, too. trotsky Apr 2018 #61

So who is a plagiarist? MineralMan Apr 2018 #63

guillaumeb. trotsky Apr 2018 #67

Oops...My bad...Yes... MineralMan Apr 2018 #86

I already did attribute it, in an unanswered post to you in fact. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #71

Oh dear. You had reached my limit on replies in subthread. MineralMan Apr 2018 #82

You could instead engage in serious discussion. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #83

Yes. That would be nice, and I do that MineralMan Apr 2018 #85

You are still avoiding the question. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #117

Maybe this way will work? marylandblue Apr 2018 #47

I don't classify myself by such terminology. MineralMan Apr 2018 #62

It is a pity you are incapable of seeing the difference. trotsky Apr 2018 #33

not so. Brainstormy Apr 2018 #64

Ah, you are saying "I don't believe in God" and "I don't believe there is a God" Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2018 #112

Since religionists cannot prove that their deity exists, either, MineralMan Apr 2018 #24

From your own reference: guillaumeb Apr 2018 #26

I see no deities... tonedevil Apr 2018 #77

That is clear, and polite. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #80

If atheism is a belief-system, then what is atheist faith? DetlefK Apr 2018 #31

We all believe in things. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #36

And we all do not believe in infinitely many things. DetlefK Apr 2018 #38

I only have room in my brain for a few beliefs. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #39

Your limitations do not necessarily apply to others. MineralMan Apr 2018 #45

The word atheist originally referred to Jews and Christians, many of whom were actually henotheists. malchickiwick Apr 2018 #34

"narratives that keep the powerful powerful" guillaumeb Apr 2018 #40

Yet religious narratives are unique. trotsky Apr 2018 #43

Your viewpoint on this is hardly unique here. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #48

Yours is the majority Lordquinton Apr 2018 #52

Are you white, male, college educated, guillaumeb Apr 2018 #54

Time for another reminder. trotsky Apr 2018 #60

A weak try on your part. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #72

Reminding you what forum you're in and what its topic is? trotsky Apr 2018 #113

The idea that all privileges get put on a scale and weigh against each other isnt a good one Major Nikon Apr 2018 #69

Why do you feel such a need to belittle? trotsky Apr 2018 #59

The Christians were never henotheistic. DetlefK Apr 2018 #41

Virtually all early Xian converts were henotheistic, actually, as was Constantine himself. malchickiwick Apr 2018 #42

Would it be unfair if I mentally associate this argument with holidays? Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #46

I think that seems like a fair assumption. I'm sure each holiday had its own unique case however. malchickiwick Apr 2018 #70

It seems like I've only run across about six hypotheses for Easter alone Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #81

The ones who mattered were Major Nikon Apr 2018 #68

As an atheist I do not care about what theists say about my not believing there is a god, elocs Apr 2018 #102

I think the behavior is more of a symptom of a problem than a problem itself Major Nikon Apr 2018 #115

Theism is just atheism dressed up in a white beard and cloak. Take away God's image and Doodley Apr 2018 #110

In it's simplest form it doesn't even have to be that complicated Major Nikon Apr 2018 #114