Religion

MineralMan

(150,484 posts)

101. It is a purely ethical outlook.

Tue Apr 24, 2018, 12:28 PM

Apr 2018

The rule of reciprocity was independently recognized by virtually every known culture. Not followed, necessarily, but recognized as a universal behavioral standard.

We know it in the West as The Golden Rule:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

However, it is a universal understanding by thinking people.

It is often not honored, however, through dehumanizing foreigners, strangers, and people of different races. That is the excuse given for slavery. The ethical principle, though, still applies, but gets modified to suit cultural needs.

I maintain that the principle of reciprocity is the primary and universal foundation for all ethics. I do not expect that principle to be followed, of course. It obviously is not and has not been followed. It remains, however, the root of all ethical and moral behavior.

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Why Did So Many Christians Support Slavery? [View all] MineralMan Apr 2018 OP

Oh my THIS one, I am gonna LOVE this one! Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #1

What religion or community didn't support slavery janterry Apr 2018 #2

This +1 bronxiteforever Apr 2018 #3

It's the same question, actually. MineralMan Apr 2018 #4

Because the Bible has at least two kinds of slavery. Igel Apr 2018 #38

Those justifications were argued quite passionately by Southern pastors Major Nikon Apr 2018 #44

And also fought against it. SQUEE Apr 2018 #113

You'd think that while Jesus allegedly walked the earth... trotsky Apr 2018 #5

Yes, you'd think so. MineralMan Apr 2018 #18

Crazy that an all-powerful god would rely on such an important message... trotsky Apr 2018 #22

Yeah, well, see... MineralMan Apr 2018 #23

Well, see, I don't think any such thing happened, actually. MineralMan Apr 2018 #189

The Gospels were written after year 100, but the Copts already established Christianity Kolesar Apr 2018 #187

You keep forgetting the mysterious ways clause Major Nikon Apr 2018 #45

Religion - not just Christianity, btw - is often used as a justification The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #6

Yes, indeed. I'm discussing Christianity, because it is MineralMan Apr 2018 #10

Christianity has never been a monolith. It probably has more splinter factions/denominations hlthe2b Apr 2018 #7

You are correct. There is no uniform Christianity. MineralMan Apr 2018 #14

Many of the leaders in the abolition movement MichMary Apr 2018 #8

Yes, and many supporters of slavery were Christian, as well. MineralMan Apr 2018 #11

True Christians MichMary Apr 2018 #13

So, apparently, a Christian can support slavery and feel no guilt. MineralMan Apr 2018 #15

Yeah, pretty much MichMary Apr 2018 #17

And yet, that label is worn proudly by many. MineralMan Apr 2018 #19

You asked the question MichMary Apr 2018 #24

It seems to mean something very different to each Christian, too. nt. Mariana Apr 2018 #21

Certainly true n/t MichMary Apr 2018 #25

JW say no true christian can vote let alone be involved in politics, and I bet they Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #53

There's scripture to back up just about any stance Mariana Apr 2018 #62

Vague? One could conclude their basing it off of the very basics of what it is to follow Jesus Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #75

I think they're vague. Mariana Apr 2018 #124

Don't forget the great evangelizer's advice in Ephesians 6: 5 ... malchickiwick Apr 2018 #9

Yes. Paul had no problem with slavery. MineralMan Apr 2018 #12

Who cares what Jesus or Paul thought since as you point out there is no way of really knowing, Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #55

Some claim to believe the scriptures, as written. MineralMan Apr 2018 #59

So you actually know Christians today who support slavery? ollie10 Apr 2018 #127

Oh hell yes, if they could make it legal there are plenty of them in this country and they all Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #140

Do you have any documentation to support your claim that.... ollie10 Apr 2018 #142

Mountains of evidence christians have used their religion to justify slavery since the beginning Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #144

As I pointed out.... ollie10 Apr 2018 #145

Virtually all Christian churches have specifically condemned slavery. Mariana Apr 2018 #150

As I pointed out yesterday I am no longer responding to you. ollie10 Apr 2018 #152

Maybe some other Christian will answer it. Mariana Apr 2018 #154

As I said before ollie10 Apr 2018 #155

As you like. Mariana Apr 2018 #156

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #158

But you just did respond to her. MineralMan Apr 2018 #157

No, my response was "no comment" ollie10 Apr 2018 #159

Your personal issues are just that. Mariana Apr 2018 #161

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #162

The ignore function works very well, you know. Mariana Apr 2018 #164

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #165

While virtually all Christian churches specifically condemn slavery today Mariana Apr 2018 #166

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #167

Stalking, by the way, Mariana Apr 2018 #168

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #169

That's cool, Ollie. You keep right on exemplifying Christianity. Mariana Apr 2018 #170

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #171

Also from Peter the Apostle, and directly relevant to the OP: Mariana Apr 2018 #172

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #173

No comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #179

LOL! You felt the need to not comment on that post twice? Mariana Apr 2018 #181

no comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #182

"If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, Mariana Apr 2018 #185

If you have no comment, just MineralMan Apr 2018 #176

No comment ollie10 Apr 2018 #178

I see what you did there. marylandblue Apr 2018 #174

It think it was done righteously. Mariana Apr 2018 #175

Yes. marylandblue Apr 2018 #177

I already know the answer, of course. Everyone does. Mariana Apr 2018 #160

Or any other of mankind's control schemes for that matter. SQUEE Apr 2018 #188

Dr. King is often used asan example of religion doing good Lordquinton Apr 2018 #16

Racial equality was Dr. King's mission. MineralMan Apr 2018 #20

Money... NeoGreen Apr 2018 #26

Might have something to do with the omnibenevolent man-god totally failing to address the issue. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #27

Yeah but... NeoGreen Apr 2018 #28

Not just slavery, but contracted servitude where Ilsa Apr 2018 #29

Slavery, or support of the institution, is why we have a Southern Baptist Convention today Docreed2003 Apr 2018 #30

Nowadays the Southern Baptists are very involved in right wing politics. LuvNewcastle Apr 2018 #73

Molasses to Rum to Slaves elleng Apr 2018 #31

I have been to church for decades. ollie10 Apr 2018 #32

39 out of 80. Nearly 50%. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #33

What's it to you? MineralMan Apr 2018 #36

Rude? guillaumeb Apr 2018 #39

Theists have simplistic beliefs and behave childishly? Mariana Apr 2018 #42

Guilty conscience? Major Nikon Apr 2018 #46

One could conclude a goat is being got Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #56

A Caprine Caper, Eh? MineralMan Apr 2018 #58

Southern Baptist heaven05 Apr 2018 #34

each and every one of them? ollie10 Apr 2018 #35

I was a member heaven05 Apr 2018 #37

They will let any ignoramus be a SB preacher. lpbk2713 Apr 2018 #43

What a sad, ugly story. That you were treated that way speaks MineralMan Apr 2018 #49

I was surprised, shocked, angry and very disturbed heaven05 Apr 2018 #52

I can only imagine. MineralMan Apr 2018 #57

true heaven05 Apr 2018 #60

An enormous straw construction. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #40

Your post is an excellent example Major Nikon Apr 2018 #47

The 11th Commandment is also much observed. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #65

So you are just assuming all since you feel so persecuted Major Nikon Apr 2018 #66

I do not feel persecuted. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #67

Then why do you whine incessantly about it? Major Nikon Apr 2018 #68

I am observing, and asking for comments. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #69

If I were to guess... Major Nikon Apr 2018 #70

I am drawing tentative conclusions. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #71

My own observation is you seem immune to new information Major Nikon Apr 2018 #72

Interesting that you should say that. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #74

I suspect your observation lens is distorted by victimism Major Nikon Apr 2018 #89

I suspect the same of others here. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #121

Sure, that would be the imaginary 12th commandment Major Nikon Apr 2018 #123

What method have you used... tonedevil Apr 2018 #122

It seems to be an entirely subjective decision on his part Mariana Apr 2018 #125

The reason Southern Baptist is even a thing is over slavery Major Nikon Apr 2018 #48

while I did find heaven05 Apr 2018 #51

They have been on the wrong side of history for over 100 years Major Nikon Apr 2018 #54

The Bible clearly supports slavery. Mariana Apr 2018 #41

Yes, it did, and does still. The words remain in scripture. MineralMan Apr 2018 #50

So how many Christians do you know who own slaves? ollie10 Apr 2018 #77

I know none, of course. Slavery is illegal. MineralMan Apr 2018 #78

Thank God! ollie10 Apr 2018 #79

You need to get out more Cartoonist Apr 2018 #134

So you say there is slavery in CA? I thought it was a liberal state. ollie10 Apr 2018 #137

We are Cartoonist Apr 2018 #139

Christian churches have strongly come out against slavery.... ollie10 Apr 2018 #143

There is slavery everywhere. MineralMan Apr 2018 #147

yes. but that doesn't show the connection between supporting slavery and the christian church ollie10 Apr 2018 #148

My original post was stated in the past tense. MineralMan Apr 2018 #149

You have said that you are not interested in the teachings in biblical day.... ollie10 Apr 2018 #151

I know how things were in biblical days of the past. MineralMan Apr 2018 #153

Vanity, Greed, Malice and Avarice mentality when it comes to Money. "consumed in material measure" Civic Justice Apr 2018 #61

Because the people who invented Christianity wanted JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #63

Yeah...sure... MineralMan Apr 2018 #64

Because Christians never enslaved each other, only foreigners. DetlefK Apr 2018 #76

First, most of the slaves in the US were Christians owned by other Christians. Mariana Apr 2018 #82

Blog slacktivist at patheos has many posts about this bobbieinok Apr 2018 #80

I think it has more to do with the mindset than biblical quotes. Doodley Apr 2018 #81

Why did so many of our founding fathers, support, or at least HopeAgain Apr 2018 #83

That's a very good question, isn't it. MineralMan Apr 2018 #86

Institutional history can not be considered HopeAgain Apr 2018 #91

Slavery has always been wrong. MineralMan Apr 2018 #95

Yes, with your modern outlook, there's no question. HopeAgain Apr 2018 #99

It is a purely ethical outlook. MineralMan Apr 2018 #101

But sometimes, stating that rule HopeAgain Apr 2018 #107

It's purely a theoretical and philosophical thing. MineralMan Apr 2018 #110

And I believe that is your experience HopeAgain Apr 2018 #112

There was a fundamental shift between in morality between 1800 and 1900 marylandblue Apr 2018 #163

About the New Testament jes06c Apr 2018 #84

That may be true. MineralMan Apr 2018 #85

Are you familiar with the Q text? HopeAgain Apr 2018 #93

I am. It doesn't exist in any written form. MineralMan Apr 2018 #97

Pretty much all of archeology HopeAgain Apr 2018 #100

Not really. Much of it is supported by physical evidence, MineralMan Apr 2018 #104

See I'm not so much interested in it from the viewpoint HopeAgain Apr 2018 #105

Well, I'm not that interested in it at all, really. MineralMan Apr 2018 #109

And as you might guess HopeAgain Apr 2018 #111

"an early Christianity that was very inwardly focused and grounded in love, empathy and decency" trotsky Apr 2018 #120

do you have any moral flaws? ollie10 Apr 2018 #138

Yes I'm aware jes06c Apr 2018 #102

The end of the world was yesterday and still no Jesus Major Nikon Apr 2018 #94

Odd, that, eh? MineralMan Apr 2018 #96

Almost all organized religion operates on the principle of conveniently unverifiable promise Major Nikon Apr 2018 #92

Interesting theory ollie10 Apr 2018 #128

Slavery in Biblical times was different, I've been told catrose Apr 2018 #87

Different in that there were different regulations. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #88

The rules varied but yes it was very different Exultant Democracy Apr 2018 #90

True! catrose Apr 2018 #103

Islamic Slavery was very different too Exultant Democracy Apr 2018 #106

So this sub thread is basically arguing that Voltaire2 Apr 2018 #183

So it seems. Slavery is slavery. MineralMan Apr 2018 #184

Fredrick Douglass made it clear not all slavery was equally horrible Exultant Democracy May 2018 #190

An interesting effort to immunize a specious Voltaire2 May 2018 #191

Denying Fredrick Douglass agency and hard earned expertise is indefensible. Exultant Democracy May 2018 #192

This entire line is strawman rhetoric Major Nikon May 2018 #193

You must not have read their post before you read the first line of mine. Exultant Democracy May 2018 #194

Your list of logical fallacies is growing Major Nikon May 2018 #195

You should work on basic reading comprehension before Exultant Democracy May 2018 #196

For those who are keeping count, you just added two more Major Nikon May 2018 #197

You can post a link to wikipedia, what an accomplishment. Exultant Democracy May 2018 #198

You can post a quote from Douglas that supports Voltaire2 May 2018 #200

That sentence does not say Mariana May 2018 #199

Wrong TlalocW Apr 2018 #108

In reality, we don't actually know how people lived back then MineralMan Apr 2018 #116

Whoever told you that lied to you Mariana Apr 2018 #186

Why did christian slave owners develop the most systematically brutal and sadistic form of slavery Exultant Democracy Apr 2018 #98

That's a question I'm unable to answer, but one I've asked, too. MineralMan Apr 2018 #114

Why are so many poc Christians? Cartoonist Apr 2018 #136

The same reason so many white people are Christians in the US. Mariana Apr 2018 #146

Might as well change "did" to "do." Christians still DO support it. Freelancer Apr 2018 #115

Well, economical slavery is somewhat different than chattel slavery. MineralMan Apr 2018 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Apr 2018 #118

As I said, it's a different discussion. MineralMan Apr 2018 #119

Money has been more important than Jesus to most Christians. no_hypocrisy Apr 2018 #126

I'm afraid you're right on that. MineralMan Apr 2018 #129

Then why do so many of them eagerly put what little they have in the collection plate? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #130

Prosperity Gospel. MineralMan Apr 2018 #131

I don't think that mentality is outside the mainstream. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #132

In some cases, Prosperity Gospel ministers need CONVICTIONS, MineralMan Apr 2018 #133

No argument there. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #135

Yes, there are victimizers and victims. MineralMan Apr 2018 #141

Beats me. My Christian ancestors opposed slavery, especially the kind they saw in the USA. raging moderate Apr 2018 #180