Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Religion

In reply to the discussion: What the Bible is really about [View all]

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
33. Point by point
Tue May 22, 2012, 02:41 PM
May 2012

I do not "discount entirely" our "sense of wonder and ability to see beauty," I just observe that they are self contained statements (i.e. they refer only to themselves) and do not provide evidence in any sense of the word "evidence". This sense and ability might be considered indicative by people who wish to see them that way; in the same way that the existence of the Grand Canyon is considered indicative of the Flood by certain young earth creationists; but there is nothing inherent in the sense, ability or that canyon that supports the ideas imposed on them. The ideas are only supported by the religious viewpoint of the sense, ability and canyon.

You say "Science is, for me ... , a direct source of faith" but nothing you describe comes directly from "science" any more than the act of discovery of the Grand Canyon directly informed the view of a worldwide flood. For belief to be directly informed by science there has to be direct evidence provided by science and there is none. There is no god needed to fuel the stars, not god throws the dice of the quantum world, a god does not bend space and time. No god is required to guide evolution or to bring the first breath to a new-born babe; a god does not ensure sparrows fall prey to cats nor forces the quorum sensing that converts Vibrio into deadly cholera.

You proceed to draw a false equivalence between science and religion by saying that they share an "evolutionary commonality" because both pursue "explanations and beauty." This is nonsense, religion already has an explanation, God, whilst science actually looks for reasons for what we do not understand. Science and mathematics do not look for beauty, although they may find what we perceive as beauty but that perception has nothing to do with science or math - except as a subject for neurologists. You might as well say that the chess player should see a beautiful chess game as evidence for god.

In respect of theology you are imposing your own, very limited view of what I said. At no point did I say or imply that theology "stopped with the first council of Nicea" but I did say that all Christian theology is based on the Bible in the sense that the Bible is foundational, but it is a foundation of sand. The Bible is a collection of folklore, legend, legal posturing and dubious history; on this Christian theologians have built their shanties, shoring up the structure with thefts from other faiths and philosophies then tacking on a shoddy, incomplete cladding stolen from modern science or math. This is not hyperbole, listen to William Lane Craig expounding the "Kalam Cosmological Hypothesis" and see how many infinities he discounts and how many he then accepts without demur

I have left your most pertinent question to last; you ask "What are we looking for?" to which my response is we are looking for the first step on a new journey, we are exploring because we do not know what we will find; why do there need to be any other reasons?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What the Bible is really about [View all] Thats my opinion May 2012 OP
The bible, Harry potter, twilight, etc. cleanhippie May 2012 #1
I guess I do not rate a response. cleanhippie May 2012 #6
The bible; Harry Potter; Blackstone's Commentaries; the Justinian Code; LTX May 2012 #16
If my point isn't already clear to you, nothing I say will change that. cleanhippie May 2012 #26
Nice exit. n/t LTX May 2012 #27
Wish the same could be said for your entrance. cleanhippie May 2012 #30
I like to point out a few problems with the "God wrote every word" interpretation. JoePhilly May 2012 #2
Right on. Thats my opinion May 2012 #4
A few thoughts ... JoePhilly May 2012 #18
True this. daaron May 2012 #20
At the end of the book I mentioned ... JoePhilly May 2012 #22
"Freelance deist"... I like that. daaron May 2012 #24
Karen Armstrong has done a marvelous job working with religious thought. Thats my opinion May 2012 #28
I had a suspicion you were familiar with her work. JoePhilly May 2012 #31
"A culture steeped in chauvinism and bigotry will produce a similar religion" laconicsax May 2012 #3
If you look at the examples, they were all profoudly "counter-cultural." Thats my opinion May 2012 #5
You can't have it both ways. laconicsax May 2012 #10
"[no need to] agree with me, but only to take seriously what is going in the religious world." xfundy May 2012 #7
Your difficulty - The only source for your faith is the Bible intaglio May 2012 #8
The only source for the faith LTX May 2012 #17
Can of worms here intaglio May 2012 #19
Interesting that you discount entirely LTX May 2012 #23
Point by point intaglio May 2012 #33
You are so full of it. LTX May 2012 #34
Some saint, whose name escapes me said, Thats my opinion May 2012 #29
However it is the only source intaglio May 2012 #36
What I would like to see rrneck May 2012 #9
It's funny how everyone who gets up to say exactly "what the Bible is really about"... trotsky May 2012 #11
It's almost like they're "replicating in religious language" their own opinions... laconicsax May 2012 #12
I thought only conservative fundamentalists did that? trotsky May 2012 #13
No, but they are the only ones who will try to change the laws to force you to abide by their JoePhilly May 2012 #32
I'm telling you what the best Biblical scholarship has been saying for along, long time. Thats my opinion May 2012 #14
And yet you're saying it in the same way the rigid fundamentalist does. trotsky May 2012 #15
So you want to hold the Bible up to the same scrutiny as science? Goblinmonger May 2012 #21
"inciteful" nt :) daaron May 2012 #25
Except that you regularly discount "Biblical scholarship" skepticscott May 2012 #35
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»What the Bible is really ...»Reply #33