That is false. There is such a place. (Reply #133)

In the discussion thread: Why Does Allah Allow Human Suffering? For What Purpose? [View all]

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 11:31 PM

Mariana (14,023 posts)

133. That is false. There is such a place.

The Religion Group is not one of the safe haven groups, it is true ( "often" does not mean "always" ). However, the SOP of the Interfaith Group is as follows:

A safe haven that provides opportunities for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief to discuss religious topics and events in a positive and civil manner, with an emphasis on tolerance. Criticisms of individual beliefs or non-belief, or debates about the existence of higher power(s) are not appropriate in this group.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1264

Gil knows about the Interfaith Group and its purpose, but he prefers to post here instead.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

238 replies	Author	Time	Post
Why Does Allah Allow Human Suffering? For What Purpose? [View all]	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	OP
Have you ever found a good answer?	Cartoonist	Sep 2018	#1
2 things:	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#2
I guess god forgot	Cartoonist	Sep 2018	#3
I fail to see the logic behind your response. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#4
If not omnipresent then not God. A Demi-God for Earth?	Fred Sanders	Sep 2018	#6
Please prove #2.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#8
If you look at replies 1 and 2,	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#9
A terrible answer	Loki Liesmith	Sep 2018	#126
No, it is my answer.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#149
My answer is simple.	Igel	Sep 2018	#96
But you didn't create the universe or the human condition	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#97
It seems that Allah grants free will to hurricanes as well.	Towlie	Sep 2018	#5
A natural weather occurence. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#15
Straw man plus begging the question.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#7
I am certain that the author would be devastated by your response.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#10
Ah yes, everyone is just too stupid to understand the brilliant logic.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#11
I did not say that you were/are stupid.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#13
Then explain it.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#16
What the author said:	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#17
No we don't	Cartoonist	Sep 2018	#18
And do you agree that you and I do not know the whoe of reality?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#24
I agree	Cartoonist	Sep 2018	#48
Speaking of making a fool of oneself,	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#55
Who is they?	Cartoonist	Sep 2018	#62
Again, so insightful.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#64
"What you see as reality is limited."	trotsky	Sep 2018	#21
Ah yes, the old, tired and worn out, "god works in mysterious ways" excuse	Major Nikon	Sep 2018	#142
He is correct about the author's presumption	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#58
The author has faith.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#60
I consider lack of evidence to be "evidence" but perhaps not absolute proof	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#65
Or, it shows that the search started from false premises. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#69
What would be the correct premise to begin the search for God?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#73
Faith.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#76
Sounds like a good starting point for comfirmation bias	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#85
Agreed.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#86
If there is no evidence for God, then the most likely conclusion	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#87
So you just have to decide that there is a god?	Lordquinton	Sep 2018	#108
In each case, for each position,	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#112
What else do you accept without evidence?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#117
There is no evidence phlogiston exists	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#121
The Phlogiston Theory is a wonderful example of science working	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#122
Speaking of framing	Lordquinton	Sep 2018	#107
I have previously given my position on faith, and that no evidence is needed.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#111
Using Lordquinton's translation stated elsewhere	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#119
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence	Major Nikon	Sep 2018	#143
Hitchens made many good points when he confined himself to politics. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#150
Meanwhile you are making many poor fallacies	Major Nikon	Sep 2018	#152
If you could	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#37
Nope.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#41
Lol	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#66
And yet the clear and wholly unoriginal thesis	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#74
and what was my response	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#89
This.	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#92
What's the all caps word there	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#93
Perhaps you forgot that the op was referring	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#94
ffs	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#123
Converting, are you, guillaumeb?	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#12
You believe that Epicurus was correct.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#14
You cannot say what I believe, guillaumeb, nor when	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#20
Speaking of blind arrogance.....	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#23
When you presume to tell others what they think or believe,	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#25
And my point was on confirmation bias.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#26
I realize that you have convinced yourself of that.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#27
"Allah" doesn't allow anything...	NeoGreen	Sep 2018	#19
The Creator understands.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#22
And the understanding is all still of no greater effect in reality than...	NeoGreen	Sep 2018	#28
Do you understand all of reality?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#29
(nt)	NeoGreen	Sep 2018	#30
your limitations make it impossible	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#39
The Creator cannot exist outside of the reality that is a creation of the Creator.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#40
Flimflam.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#43
Your new favorite term?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#49
Actually, a Creator cannot exist within the reality that is its creation.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#45
Follow your own advice.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#50
Nonsensical	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#68
Your determination of the limits of the Creator.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#71
No the basic definition of what a god is supposed to be	qazplm135	Sep 2018	#72
Since when?	Lordquinton	Sep 2018	#110
2 different concepts.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#114
This sounds very traditionally Christian in a way.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#118
The Word becomes flesh every time someone accepts the Word. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#148
So your answer is that you get to have it both ways?	Lordquinton	Sep 2018	#125
Do you understand any of reality.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#44
2 wholly unsupported claims. n/t	trotsky	Sep 2018	#31
Excellent counting skills. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#32
Offsets your pitiful argumentation skills, I guess. n/t	trotsky	Sep 2018	#33
Notice that I made no comment on your argumentation ability. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#34
Yes, I realize that, because you acknowledge its superiority by being unable to respond.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#35
I understand. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#36
Thanks for agreeing with me! n/t	trotsky	Sep 2018	#38
Clearly, you do not. nt	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#46
So you disagree with trotsky?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#51
My reply was to you, not anyone else.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#95
Haven't you claimed	Mariana	Sep 2018	#81
Many here understand that this is my opinion.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#82
How can you even have an opinion	Mariana	Sep 2018	#83
How can some have an opinion that the Creator does not exist?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#84
Gil, you don't just posit some creator might exist.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#88
I assumed that you recognized that my opinion posts are just my personal view.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#98
Did you just make up your personal views	Mariana	Sep 2018	#103
We all approach faith as individuals.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#106
Allah, Yahweh, Zeus allow nothing.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#42
Thus it is definitively decided.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#53
..	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#56
Always your best response. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#57
Often, it's all I need.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#63
This theodicy rests on a logic error	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#47
Your error is presuming that you understand the reason for the Creator's actions.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#52
I don't assume anything other than the usual definition of God	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#54
If a human being cannot make an informed judgement of reality, then why are we supposed to trust it?	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#59
Any human believes in a god because of faith.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#61
Is human faith fallible or infallible?	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#67
Nothing human can be infallible.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#70
Then faith is irrelevant for the question whether God exists.	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#75
No, faith is the belief in the Creator. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#77
But you just said that it's fallible. That means, it's unreliable.	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#91
Faith requires belief. Any statement of faith represents a statement of belief. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#99
What are your definitions of "faith" and "belief"?	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#100
My faith in this area refers to my belief that the Creator created what we	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#104
I don't ask what your faith and your belief are. What are your definitions of "faith" and "belief"?	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#116
Faith has been defined as the willing suspension of disbelief.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#147
Willing? Little children are indoctrinated to have faith	Mariana	Sep 2018	#159
Are little children indoctrinated into believing in patriotism?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#178
Yes, and that isn't voluntary either. It is forced upon them. nt.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#181
This is also the definition of enjoying science fiction	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#162
Now we're getting somewhere.	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#170
Faith is the foundation for religion.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#179
So what? It's not my fault that religion is full of philosophical errors!	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#182
Religion takes many forms.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#183
This is not about people. This is about faith.	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#185
He won't answer, because faith isn't an argument	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#186
Faith and belief are dependent on each other.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#189
Stop digging. You are only making it worse.	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#195
Do you only have provable beliefs? eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#202
The point is, how willing are we to defend that which cannot be defended?	DetlefK	Sep 2018	#203
Allah is the same Abrahamic god worshipped by Christians. If you believe the OT, he actively ...	malchickiwick	Sep 2018	#78
Some Christians deny that Allah is the same as the god of the Bible. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#79
*Historically illiterate Christians deny that Allah is the same as the god of the Bible. eom	malchickiwick	Sep 2018	#80
Agreed. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#175
Some Christians also deny that Jesus is the same as the god of the bible	Major Nikon	Sep 2018	#153
Drivel.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#90
Free will.	underpants	Sep 2018	#101
Free Willy!	True Dough	Sep 2018	#102
Yes.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#105
Is human suffering always contingent upon the free action of other humans?	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#134
How insightful of you.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#177
Not really.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#180
It is entirely likely then that you don't know any humans.	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#164
You ask an interesting question.	TomSlick	Sep 2018	#109
Agreed. An excellent repsonse.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#113
I regret there is no place to discuss religion on DU.	TomSlick	Sep 2018	#115
Here is the Statement of Purpose for the Religion Group:	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#120
Correct.	TomSlick	Sep 2018	#128
I do not recall anyone saying anything like that to you.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#130
We agree.	TomSlick	Sep 2018	#131
Religion is a topic that is open for debate.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#132
Wow. Fascinating.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#145
Illustrating one of the poster's points.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#146
Uh-huh.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#154
His point was that cluelessness gets mocked?	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#155
This is you illustrating my observation of the 11th Commandment.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#176
You really should back up your statement.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#160
You'll never get one.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#200
Well, it isn't working, apparently.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#201
Yes, there is some harsh rhetoric and ridicule in that regard	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#124
People break the rules here and they get dealt with	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#156
I think criticism on this site goes beyond "outspoken"	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#157
Do you think that there have been any attemps	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#158
Yes there is that one poster, but I've seen harsh rhetoric directed at others	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#161
Like this current subthread where a religionist	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#163
I didn't see any harshness and I didn't see him say we were wrecking DU	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#166
He's said several demonstrably false things in this thread.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#167
I got the sense he was offering an impressionistic viewpoint rather than any direct quote	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#168
That is not what he was squawking about.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#174
People don't distinguish between attacking their cherished ideas and attacking people	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#184
He wants what most people lurking the internet want.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#187
I hate people	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#188
Tom said:	Mariana	Sep 2018	#190
Ok I concede that point.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#191
That is false. There is such a place.	Mariana	Sep 2018	#133
Of course, nobody has posted there since April.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#135
I was just correcting TomSlick's false statement	Mariana	Sep 2018	#137
Some people like a fight, I guess.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#140
Same reason humans don't save every bug, or animal from pain and suffering. We are just so	Pisces	Sep 2018	#127
Some do have that as a goal.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#129
This is true, but a very small percentage of religions or mankind as a whole. It is the arrogance of	Pisces	Sep 2018	#136
I call foul...	NeoGreen	Sep 2018	#138
Thanks for supplying the numbers.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#141
I would, humbly, suggest that the author of post #136...	NeoGreen	Sep 2018	#151
Very few actively practice harm avoidance.	Voltaire2	Sep 2018	#165
That is true, but the principle still exists.	MineralMan	Sep 2018	#173
Reading stuff like this...	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#144
Why?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#169
You don't find anything disquieting...	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#171
No, I find it metaphorical for the physical universe	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#172
Why do some people have to experience so much more pain than others?	trotsky	Sep 2018	#139
Why are some people taller than others?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#193
Random variation and natural selection	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#194
Genetics.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#196
We both know he won't.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#197
It's his standard propaganda technique - whataboutism.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#198
Performance art.	Act_of_Reparation	Sep 2018	#199
An interesting response.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#192
I don't know why but the effects of suffering are like a gamble.	gtar100	Sep 2018	#204
My interpretation of the phrase "allow human suffering" is that	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#205
What free will human decision causes earthquakes?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#206
Is that the best response you could think of? eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#207
That was a question, not a response. Do you have an answer?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#208
I was serious.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#209
That was my question to you.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#210
The commonality is suffering.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#211
The causal mechanisms are different	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#212
Of course.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#213
Human actors have free will to cause pain to otherhuman actors	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#214
Human actors have the ability, and the will.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#216
The Creator doesn't have free will?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#218
The Creator created, and free will exists in sentient beings.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#219
That doesn't answer the question	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#220
Now your questions seem designed to avoid dialogue. eom	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#221
Not at all. I asked if the Creator has free will.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#222
The Creator created.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#223
Sure.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#224
Prove that you have free will.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#225
Definition: Free will is the ability to make a choice with no external forces controlling you	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#226
And does your entire life experience influence your decisions?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#230
Free will isn't 100%, it can be influenced modified etc.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#231
No, there is no issue.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#233
The issue is that the Creator created a world with suffering and death	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#234
Overcrowding?	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#235
Omnipotent, remember?	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#236
No death, no illness,	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#237
Not no physical laws. Different laws.	marylandblue	Sep 2018	#238
Prove ANY ONE of the many statements you have made about your creator.	trotsky	Sep 2018	#228
Exactly. And that implies (to me) conditions in which we can grow in knowledge through experiences.	gtar100	Sep 2018	#215
A very nice reply.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#217
Why do you post these questions and then get dismissive and irritated with the responses?	tymorial	Sep 2018	#227
I am not looking for conversion.	guillaumeb	Sep 2018	#229
Who knows why Gil does what he does?	Mariana	Sep 2018	#232

Edit History

Please login to view edit histories.