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Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
6. Getting rid of gods/religion doesn't get rid of human nature, unfortunately. This includes....
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:30 PM
Jun 2012

Greed, stupidity, aggression, jealousy and a host of other unpleasant things--as well as the good stuff like empathy, selflessness, etc. Which is to say: as an Atheist, I'm not going to fool myself into believing that erasing religion would magically make us better beings, any more than I'm going to believe having religion magically makes us better beings. The evidence is really against either being true.

We would, however, be very different creatures if we examine exactly how to unilaterally get rid of any belief in gods or religion. Because, as any wise atheist will tell you, what causes people to believe in such is not so easy to get rid of without getting rid of other things useful for human survival and evolution. For example: Superstition. Our tendency to make the post-hoc-ergo-proper-hoc mistake. We pray for rain, it rains, ergo our prayer caused the rain (and by extension, something listened to the prayer and gave us the rain). Getting rid of this would seem to be a good thing, but what about this: we stick our hand in a fire, it burns, therefore fire burns and we shouldn't stick our hand in it. Can we get rid of the superstitious post-hoc reasoning without getting rid of the logical post-hoc reasoning? I'm not so sure--and we kinda need the logical one for survival.

All animals have this, by the way. Your dog won't stick his paw in the fire either. The big difference between animals and humans with post-hoc reasoning is that we take it to ridiculous lengths. So...get rid of the part of our brains that takes it to ridiculous lengths? That gets rid of our ability to come up with scientific theories--which we may prove right or wrong later, but we need to have that wild post-hoc imagining in order to come up with them at all. So, might not be a good thing to get rid of it.

And how about our need to anthropomorphize. This is part of why we create gods: that tree bark looks like a human face; so that tree must be something human like as well as tree-like, so it can understand us if we talk to it. It might communicate our wishes to the other trees...etc. Why is this a good thing? Well, if we couldn't recognize human elements in animals we wouldn't be kind to them (even if--yet again--this often leads to big mistakes like thinking the bear isn't going to eat us). Our desire to travel to other planets is based, in part, on our belief that another "us" is on them. On seeing a man in the moon.

And, I'm afraid that if we weren't able to create religions or gods we'd also have a real problem when it came to art and literature. No Superman. Because you see, when it gets right down to it, all gods are superhero stories. Stories of beings who have amazing adventures, do amazing things that we want to do, but can't, and who can protect and save us from the scary world. It may not be a good thing for us to imagine such when it comes to organized religion, but I'd really hate to do without Saturday morning cartoons. The part of our imagination leads to gods also leads to other nifty, entertaining and, frankly, enlightening stuff.

Putting it another way, while it's possible for individuals (atheists) to have all this and *not* believe in gods or religion, it's very difficult for humankind as a species to have all this and not create gods or religion. We'd have to be other than what we are to erase religion/gods from the collective human psyche. The only other scenario is getting everyone to keep all this, but to all think like atheists. Which puts us back at sentence #1: you don't get rid of the greed, jealousy, pettiness, aggression, or, alas, stupidity. So, I'm not sure our history would have been that much different. We'd just have been more honest. Instead of saying, "We're going to war to protect god's city from the infidel!" we'd say, "They've got gold, spices, and other good stuff, and we want that." And when we tortured and burned people we wouldn't say "We're saving their souls!" we'd say, "We enjoy watching people tortured and burned to death."

Getting rid of gods and religion doesn't get rid of human nature, just the excuses we use for doing what our human nature wants to do.

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In my opinion, the world would be more intellectual, more scientific, and sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #1
like Mr. Spock? Living long and prospering? graham4anything Jun 2012 #2
MLK would still have been an awesome dude. Goblinmonger Jun 2012 #3
MLK was an awesome dude but not because he was a reverend but be cause he was a great man! SoutherDem Jun 2012 #4
Actually the world has experienced societies "with no religion or no belief in any gods?" humblebum Jun 2012 #5
Getting rid of gods/religion doesn't get rid of human nature, unfortunately. This includes.... Moonwalk Jun 2012 #6
Awesome post! nt raccoon Jun 2012 #28
Wonderful response. cbayer Jun 2012 #29
I agree that gods were created by humankind to explain the unknown. However, sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #30
Human nature is, inherently selfish and self-centered = greed, aggression, jealousy, demosincebirth Jun 2012 #35
Can you prove that people are born greedy, aggressive, and jealous? sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #39
Can you prove otherwise? demosincebirth Jun 2012 #41
It would be absolute nirvana!! cbayer Jun 2012 #7
I agree that assholery is independent Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #8
Ain't that the truth. cbayer Jun 2012 #9
Shining example of beauty and love??? eqfan592 Jun 2012 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Jun 2012 #11
Wow, I was going along with the joke you started. eqfan592 Jun 2012 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Jun 2012 #13
I think calling any group on these forums a "cesspool" may be going just a tad too far, cbayer. (nt) eqfan592 Jun 2012 #16
My apologies. cbayer Jun 2012 #22
you should resign as host of this forum Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #19
Why? When have I ever exercised any power as a host based on my personal feelings cbayer Jun 2012 #21
why? because you just announced that you despise the atheists here. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #23
I can see how you might infer that from what I said, but it's not what I meant. cbayer Jun 2012 #24
Deleting because this was offensive to members I did not wish to offend. cbayer Jun 2012 #26
this went from amusing to obnoxious in a flash. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #18
Deleting because this was offensive to people I did not wish to offend. cbayer Jun 2012 #25
We'd still find something to fight over. CrispyQ Jun 2012 #14
We would still be fighting over scraps of meat. Every civilization, good or bad worshiped demosincebirth Jun 2012 #15
So did war - are you in favour of keeping that going, too? mr blur Jun 2012 #17
Don't like an answer? Ask a rhetorical question. demosincebirth Jun 2012 #34
I just have to ask why you posted this question when it is obivious sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #20
What place is that? rug Jun 2012 #33
The planet vulcan. nt rrneck Jun 2012 #27
Oh, that would be a barrel of laughs, wouldn't it? rug Jun 2012 #32
Aw, I dunno. With enough Klingon beer... nt rrneck Jun 2012 #36
Look to a time when it didn't. rug Jun 2012 #31
Like the Jetsons? n/t backscatter712 Jun 2012 #37
I hope not! laconicsax Jun 2012 #38
OK, how about Ireland before whiskey was invented? backscatter712 Jun 2012 #42
I'd prefer a place with more divesity, not less. n/t laconicsax Jun 2012 #43
So it's religion's fault I don't have a flying car right now? Goblinmonger Jun 2012 #40
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