Religion

trotsky

(49,533 posts)

73. But was King's faith critical?

Tue Jul 10, 2012, 08:48 AM

Jul 2012

The only way this can be fairly argued is to see an alternate history with someone having King's charisma and leadership but being a non-believer, and see how that plays out. Since we can't do that, we can't possibly know one way or the other.

And the point about Christianity and racism is a fair one: Christianity had been used to set up and perpetuate all the things the civil rights movement had to fight against. If you're going to give it the credit for "solving" a problem it helped create (or at least helped perpetuate), I think others have a right to call shenanigans.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

117 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Six Reasons We Can't Change the Future Without Progressive Religion [View all] cbayer Jul 2012 OP

Religion hinders progress. JNelson6563 Jul 2012 #1

Sheesh, are you dredging this crap up AGAIN? skepticscott Jul 2012 #2

Thanks for sharing, cbayer! Couldn't agree more. E_Pluribus_Unitarian Jul 2012 #3

That's what happens when some see it as a team sport involving winning and losing. cbayer Jul 2012 #5

And does the author also skepticscott Jul 2012 #12

Progressives need inclusiveness get the red out Jul 2012 #4

We (progressive, liberal Democrats) need all the help and alliances we can get. cbayer Jul 2012 #6

Is there anything about that skepticscott Jul 2012 #7

The question was "What does religion offer that progressives need to make our movement work?" get the red out Jul 2012 #8

So again you have no response skepticscott Jul 2012 #11

The community building aspects of religion can be both a strength and a weakness in a ... Jim__ Jul 2012 #9

I don't think progressive religions do overcome the tendency towards tribal conflicts. cbayer Jul 2012 #10

Not all progressives are going to fall under the same religious umbrella. Jim__ Jul 2012 #13

I am torn on this point. cbayer Jul 2012 #14

And yet you and others skepticscott Jul 2012 #15

Everybody has a place at the table. That's the only way to achieve anything meaningful. humblebum Jul 2012 #19

And if I were advocating that skepticscott Jul 2012 #20

Your preoccupation with religion or anti-religion as the case may be indicates otherwise. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #21

As I said skepticscott Jul 2012 #25

I would expect nothing else. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #29

We are between a rock and a hard place. Jim__ Jul 2012 #17

In the kind of community I live in, there are people of all conceivable cbayer Jul 2012 #18

So let me get this straight (though I kinow you won't respond) Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #16

Prayer saltwn Jul 2012 #22

It appears to work because skepticscott Jul 2012 #24

I wish I could rec a post! Shadowflash Jul 2012 #26

+1, n/t RKP5637 Jul 2012 #40

pure silliness Skittles Jul 2012 #52

Prayer:The belief that the physical laws of the universe be changed in behalf of a single petitioner hobbit709 Jul 2012 #63

I have one question: Who gets to decide what "progressive religion" is? trotsky Jul 2012 #23

The thing about Christianity saltwn Jul 2012 #28

Ummm... trotsky Jul 2012 #46

So, is Jim Wallis allowed to oppose marriage equality? saltwn Jul 2012 #65

You're kind of jumping all over the place, let me pick a few points to focus on. trotsky Jul 2012 #67

Good points saltwn Jul 2012 #93

Responses trotsky Jul 2012 #106

Welcome to DU and to the Religion group, saltwn. cbayer Jul 2012 #79

It still requires belief in something nonexistent. Deep13 Jul 2012 #27

+1, n/t RKP5637 Jul 2012 #41

I have posted on this very topic before. longship Jul 2012 #30

Great post, longship. A few questions. cbayer Jul 2012 #31

Damned Good Questions! longship Jul 2012 #38

This actually sounds like a book I would enjoy, as I have long viewed religion as part cbayer Jul 2012 #39

After the election, we'll still be friends. longship Jul 2012 #49

So is it useful skepticscott Jul 2012 #32

Hi, Skepticscott. longship Jul 2012 #34

I never said that those things came from you, now did I? skepticscott Jul 2012 #35

To be honest longship Jul 2012 #45

Well, if you're really interested in showing respect skepticscott Jul 2012 #55

I wholeheartedly disagree with both of your questions. longship Jul 2012 #89

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #82

Btw, congrats skepticscott Jul 2012 #33

Can I ask you a question? trotsky Jul 2012 #48

It's kind of an iconic objection. longship Jul 2012 #50

So no atheist has said it, yet we have to falsify it? trotsky Jul 2012 #53

Never said an atheist said it; I said atheist hear it. longship Jul 2012 #54

Atheists hear what? trotsky Jul 2012 #56

Sorry, our dialog's been sidetracked here. longship Jul 2012 #61

OK, so there's still the glaring problem of reciprocity. trotsky Jul 2012 #68

I just try to do the best I can longship Jul 2012 #75

Your post that started this subthread had the feel of a lecture to atheists. trotsky Jul 2012 #76

I do not claim to have all the answers, nor have I ever done so longship Jul 2012 #88

"We can disagree without being vitriolic." trotsky Jul 2012 #92

Buh-bye longship Jul 2012 #94

ha. So fun.... Evoman Jul 2012 #102

I agree with you. trotsky Jul 2012 #105

Very well said. eqfan592 Jul 2012 #113

+100. I agree with every word. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #117

There's actually a test case we can watch. We have China without, India with: dimbear Jul 2012 #36

I wouldn't say China has no religion, cbayer Jul 2012 #37

Right. I should have said mostly with, mostly without. dimbear Jul 2012 #42

It may outperform, but what about social change, particularly as it applies to civil rights cbayer Jul 2012 #43

China is certainly subject to some horrid abuses, but their policies are effective. dimbear Jul 2012 #44

You could be right and we shall see. cbayer Jul 2012 #47

I agree that there is a place for religious people among progressives. David__77 Jul 2012 #51

Sure there is, but that's not the point of the OP skepticscott Jul 2012 #58

No, religion is not required. David__77 Jul 2012 #86

Then it sounds like skepticscott Jul 2012 #87

I suppose. David__77 Jul 2012 #101

The Dalai Lama suggests it's time to BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #57

I don't buy it. rrneck Jul 2012 #59

"Here's your competition. Good luck champ." Yep Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #60

LOL! Awesome post! eqfan592 Jul 2012 #62

Don't shade your eyes, plagiarize. .. rrneck Jul 2012 #64

Awesome. n/t trotsky Jul 2012 #70

The Occupy Movement Got Me Thinking About the Civil Rights Movement On the Road Jul 2012 #66

Secularism is written into our Constitution. Deep13 Jul 2012 #69

OK, So Observing that Martin Luther King's Faith Was Critical to the Civil Rights Movement On the Road Jul 2012 #71

But was King's faith critical? trotsky Jul 2012 #73

Was King's Faith Critical? On the Road Jul 2012 #90

Just attacking your logic from both sides to show your contradiction. trotsky Jul 2012 #91

I Think the Post Went Right Over Your Head On the Road Jul 2012 #98

No, I'm pretty sure it's you who is missing the point. trotsky Jul 2012 #104

Sorry, I assumed you knew the current state of the argument. Deep13 Jul 2012 #74

"There is nothing in Christian dogma that contradicts segregation" - plainly false humblebum Jul 2012 #78

"You cannot give credit to religion for something good unless you also acknowledge all the harm..." humblebum Jul 2012 #80

Secularism has NEVER done harm! State atheism, on the other hand, has. LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #108

Humblebum doesn't recognize a difference between certain brands of state atheism... eqfan592 Jul 2012 #114

So do you prefer Ford, Chevy, or Volvo? nt humblebum Jul 2012 #116

The OP Asked "What Religion Offers That Progressives Need to Make Our Movement Work" On the Road Jul 2012 #95

To say that secularism, as you define it, is written into the Constitution is debatable, and humblebum Jul 2012 #77

Do you actually mean that people should only have the choice between different religions, and not LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #107

Never said that and never implied that. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #111

There is an active religious movement within the OWS. cbayer Jul 2012 #81

So I have heard... Deep13 Jul 2012 #83

Whatever floats your boat, as long as it does not impinge on or harm others. cbayer Jul 2012 #84

Well, I do not posess the power to infringe on others or to harm them... Deep13 Jul 2012 #112

Well, I'm Glad You See Things That Way On the Road Jul 2012 #96

I don't think you can judge DU's position on religion from the religion group. cbayer Jul 2012 #97

I'm Glad to Hear You Say That On the Road Jul 2012 #99

Be aware that you will most likely be classified as a believer here. cbayer Jul 2012 #100

Six Reasons We Can't Change the Future without Progressive Alchemy _ed_ Jul 2012 #72

Interesting topic and interesting thread. I agree with the points made about alliances pinto Jul 2012 #85

I simply don't think that 'progressive religion' has been excluded from LW movements at all LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #103

^^^^ This. trotsky Jul 2012 #109

Yes. Well stated. djean111 Jul 2012 #110

I don't think it means that progressives should become more religious at all. cbayer Jul 2012 #115