Religion

On the Road

(20,783 posts)

98. I Think the Post Went Right Over Your Head

Tue Jul 10, 2012, 05:56 PM

Jul 2012

There is nothing dishonest or contradictory about responding to the OP by noting the positive qualities of MLK and the civil rights movement. Period.

Your post, however, appeared to have it both ways -- attributing the negative qualities of the American South to their faith while saying it's unknowable whether King's religion was "critical' in the civil rights movement.

As far as the role Christianity played in Martin Luther King's social campaigns, here's a start. You could come up with dozens, if not hundreds of incidents that would support the same point:

King had what was perhaps the most transforming prayer experience in 1956, after a midnight call from a racist who threatened to kill him and destroy his home.

"He retreated to his kitchen and over a cup of coffee poured his heart out to God," Baldwin said.

King later preached a sermon about the experience, saying he had a vision of God telling him to "stand up" for righteousness and assuring him that he would always have God's companionship.

"He felt from that point on that he was never really alone," said Baldwin, who named his book after King's experience.

http://www.chron.com/life/houston-belief/article/Faith-gave-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-courage-and-1572026.php

What kind of gymnastics do you have to do with that to make it NOT about his faith?

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Six Reasons We Can't Change the Future Without Progressive Religion [View all] cbayer Jul 2012 OP

Religion hinders progress. JNelson6563 Jul 2012 #1

Sheesh, are you dredging this crap up AGAIN? skepticscott Jul 2012 #2

Thanks for sharing, cbayer! Couldn't agree more. E_Pluribus_Unitarian Jul 2012 #3

That's what happens when some see it as a team sport involving winning and losing. cbayer Jul 2012 #5

And does the author also skepticscott Jul 2012 #12

Progressives need inclusiveness get the red out Jul 2012 #4

We (progressive, liberal Democrats) need all the help and alliances we can get. cbayer Jul 2012 #6

Is there anything about that skepticscott Jul 2012 #7

The question was "What does religion offer that progressives need to make our movement work?" get the red out Jul 2012 #8

So again you have no response skepticscott Jul 2012 #11

The community building aspects of religion can be both a strength and a weakness in a ... Jim__ Jul 2012 #9

I don't think progressive religions do overcome the tendency towards tribal conflicts. cbayer Jul 2012 #10

Not all progressives are going to fall under the same religious umbrella. Jim__ Jul 2012 #13

I am torn on this point. cbayer Jul 2012 #14

And yet you and others skepticscott Jul 2012 #15

Everybody has a place at the table. That's the only way to achieve anything meaningful. humblebum Jul 2012 #19

And if I were advocating that skepticscott Jul 2012 #20

Your preoccupation with religion or anti-religion as the case may be indicates otherwise. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #21

As I said skepticscott Jul 2012 #25

I would expect nothing else. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #29

We are between a rock and a hard place. Jim__ Jul 2012 #17

In the kind of community I live in, there are people of all conceivable cbayer Jul 2012 #18

So let me get this straight (though I kinow you won't respond) Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #16

Prayer saltwn Jul 2012 #22

It appears to work because skepticscott Jul 2012 #24

I wish I could rec a post! Shadowflash Jul 2012 #26

+1, n/t RKP5637 Jul 2012 #40

pure silliness Skittles Jul 2012 #52

Prayer:The belief that the physical laws of the universe be changed in behalf of a single petitioner hobbit709 Jul 2012 #63

I have one question: Who gets to decide what "progressive religion" is? trotsky Jul 2012 #23

The thing about Christianity saltwn Jul 2012 #28

Ummm... trotsky Jul 2012 #46

So, is Jim Wallis allowed to oppose marriage equality? saltwn Jul 2012 #65

You're kind of jumping all over the place, let me pick a few points to focus on. trotsky Jul 2012 #67

Good points saltwn Jul 2012 #93

Responses trotsky Jul 2012 #106

Welcome to DU and to the Religion group, saltwn. cbayer Jul 2012 #79

It still requires belief in something nonexistent. Deep13 Jul 2012 #27

+1, n/t RKP5637 Jul 2012 #41

I have posted on this very topic before. longship Jul 2012 #30

Great post, longship. A few questions. cbayer Jul 2012 #31

Damned Good Questions! longship Jul 2012 #38

This actually sounds like a book I would enjoy, as I have long viewed religion as part cbayer Jul 2012 #39

After the election, we'll still be friends. longship Jul 2012 #49

So is it useful skepticscott Jul 2012 #32

Hi, Skepticscott. longship Jul 2012 #34

I never said that those things came from you, now did I? skepticscott Jul 2012 #35

To be honest longship Jul 2012 #45

Well, if you're really interested in showing respect skepticscott Jul 2012 #55

I wholeheartedly disagree with both of your questions. longship Jul 2012 #89

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #82

Btw, congrats skepticscott Jul 2012 #33

Can I ask you a question? trotsky Jul 2012 #48

It's kind of an iconic objection. longship Jul 2012 #50

So no atheist has said it, yet we have to falsify it? trotsky Jul 2012 #53

Never said an atheist said it; I said atheist hear it. longship Jul 2012 #54

Atheists hear what? trotsky Jul 2012 #56

Sorry, our dialog's been sidetracked here. longship Jul 2012 #61

OK, so there's still the glaring problem of reciprocity. trotsky Jul 2012 #68

I just try to do the best I can longship Jul 2012 #75

Your post that started this subthread had the feel of a lecture to atheists. trotsky Jul 2012 #76

I do not claim to have all the answers, nor have I ever done so longship Jul 2012 #88

"We can disagree without being vitriolic." trotsky Jul 2012 #92

Buh-bye longship Jul 2012 #94

ha. So fun.... Evoman Jul 2012 #102

I agree with you. trotsky Jul 2012 #105

Very well said. eqfan592 Jul 2012 #113

+100. I agree with every word. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #117

There's actually a test case we can watch. We have China without, India with: dimbear Jul 2012 #36

I wouldn't say China has no religion, cbayer Jul 2012 #37

Right. I should have said mostly with, mostly without. dimbear Jul 2012 #42

It may outperform, but what about social change, particularly as it applies to civil rights cbayer Jul 2012 #43

China is certainly subject to some horrid abuses, but their policies are effective. dimbear Jul 2012 #44

You could be right and we shall see. cbayer Jul 2012 #47

I agree that there is a place for religious people among progressives. David__77 Jul 2012 #51

Sure there is, but that's not the point of the OP skepticscott Jul 2012 #58

No, religion is not required. David__77 Jul 2012 #86

Then it sounds like skepticscott Jul 2012 #87

I suppose. David__77 Jul 2012 #101

The Dalai Lama suggests it's time to BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #57

I don't buy it. rrneck Jul 2012 #59

"Here's your competition. Good luck champ." Yep Goblinmonger Jul 2012 #60

LOL! Awesome post! eqfan592 Jul 2012 #62

Don't shade your eyes, plagiarize. .. rrneck Jul 2012 #64

Awesome. n/t trotsky Jul 2012 #70

The Occupy Movement Got Me Thinking About the Civil Rights Movement On the Road Jul 2012 #66

Secularism is written into our Constitution. Deep13 Jul 2012 #69

OK, So Observing that Martin Luther King's Faith Was Critical to the Civil Rights Movement On the Road Jul 2012 #71

But was King's faith critical? trotsky Jul 2012 #73

Was King's Faith Critical? On the Road Jul 2012 #90

Just attacking your logic from both sides to show your contradiction. trotsky Jul 2012 #91

I Think the Post Went Right Over Your Head On the Road Jul 2012 #98

No, I'm pretty sure it's you who is missing the point. trotsky Jul 2012 #104

Sorry, I assumed you knew the current state of the argument. Deep13 Jul 2012 #74

"There is nothing in Christian dogma that contradicts segregation" - plainly false humblebum Jul 2012 #78

"You cannot give credit to religion for something good unless you also acknowledge all the harm..." humblebum Jul 2012 #80

Secularism has NEVER done harm! State atheism, on the other hand, has. LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #108

Humblebum doesn't recognize a difference between certain brands of state atheism... eqfan592 Jul 2012 #114

So do you prefer Ford, Chevy, or Volvo? nt humblebum Jul 2012 #116

The OP Asked "What Religion Offers That Progressives Need to Make Our Movement Work" On the Road Jul 2012 #95

To say that secularism, as you define it, is written into the Constitution is debatable, and humblebum Jul 2012 #77

Do you actually mean that people should only have the choice between different religions, and not LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #107

Never said that and never implied that. nt humblebum Jul 2012 #111

There is an active religious movement within the OWS. cbayer Jul 2012 #81

So I have heard... Deep13 Jul 2012 #83

Whatever floats your boat, as long as it does not impinge on or harm others. cbayer Jul 2012 #84

Well, I do not posess the power to infringe on others or to harm them... Deep13 Jul 2012 #112

Well, I'm Glad You See Things That Way On the Road Jul 2012 #96

I don't think you can judge DU's position on religion from the religion group. cbayer Jul 2012 #97

I'm Glad to Hear You Say That On the Road Jul 2012 #99

Be aware that you will most likely be classified as a believer here. cbayer Jul 2012 #100

Six Reasons We Can't Change the Future without Progressive Alchemy _ed_ Jul 2012 #72

Interesting topic and interesting thread. I agree with the points made about alliances pinto Jul 2012 #85

I simply don't think that 'progressive religion' has been excluded from LW movements at all LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #103

^^^^ This. trotsky Jul 2012 #109

Yes. Well stated. djean111 Jul 2012 #110

I don't think it means that progressives should become more religious at all. cbayer Jul 2012 #115