Religion
In reply to the discussion: I don't believe in God, so why is it that I don't want to be labelled an atheist? [View all]Vehl
(1,915 posts)The reason most people in the west, or even outside the Dharmic religions/philosophies(Hinduism,Buddhism, Jainism) have not heard a lot about Hindu Atheists is usually due to one (or more) of the following reasons
1 We never called ourselves Hindu's in the first place...let alone Hindu Atheists (the term "Hindu" is hardly used by Hindus, and even when used, it's almost always only used when speaking to a non-Hindu)..add the fact that we still use the names of the Hindu schools of philosophy instead of the English term "atheist" and one can see why you don't see Hindu's going about claiming they are "hindu atheists". In fact every-time I look at my signature on DU, i mentally cringe...because imo its redundant, because for us Hindus Atheism has always been a part of Hinduism..at least in our neck of the woods. So claiming Hindu Atheist is like claiming Human man..or something to that effect.
2 Atheism was not called "Atheism" in India. It was found in many of the Hindu philosophies and usually go by the particular name of the philosophy. In my case, I usually refer to myself as a practitioner of the Advaita Vedanta philosophy. ( "Advaita" roughly translates to English as "non-dualist" ) . For someone well versed in Hindu/Buddhist philosophy, the term "Advaita Vedantin' (Which btw has no exclusive claim to Atheism within Hinduism..cos many other Hindu Philosophies also have Atheism in them) is more than enough. Even online debates and discussions are done using these terminologies. So it is understandable most people will not be aware of this unless they know the terminology.
3 What most Westerners(I hasten to add that I hate to generalize) know about Hinduism is usually rephrased and reworded books and views on that "way of life" (not exactly a "religion" ) by outsiders, who often enough tend to be not only followers of the Abrahamic religions, but missionaries as well. They could not comprehend a system that was so very different from the Abrahamic "religious" worldview that they knowingly or unknowingly translated/confused Hinduism with what they thought were similar ideas/notions found in their own religions. This leads to some hilarious pieces of "common knowledge" about Hinduism.
A good example of this would be the oft repeated claim that Hindus have 330 Million gods.
This piece of "info" has been so overused in the Western media that its taken for granted. For anyone well versed in Hindu philosophy the answer makes perfect sense. The "correct" answer to the 330 million gods statement is only to be found when one looks at India's population(at the time this question was asked). it was 330 million. The Hindu philosopher who answered 330 million when asked "how many gods does Hinduism have", gave a very profound answer.... 330 Million gods, 330 million Indians. In other words, one god per Indian...in the more philosophical Hindu schools...it means each person is a god. Not only does this zen koan-like answer contain the highest form of Hindu philosophy (There is no "god"..if there is ..then everyone is god (which btw would devalue the notion of "god' to such an extent that it does not mater anymore)) but it also underscores the Atheistic views which are core to Hinduism.
sadly the person who listened to this answer(an answer which most Hindu/Buddhist scholars would have no problem understanding) took it at face value and wrote down that Hindus have 330 million gods
anyways, here are some samples of Atheistic ideas in Hinduism
Fate or divine dispensation is merely a convention which has come to be regarded as truth by being repeatedly declared to be true. If this god is truly the ordainer of everything in this world, of what meaning is any action, and whom should one teach at all?
The Concise Yoga Vasistha, Translated by Swami Venkatesananda State University of New York Press, 1984
Fortune or God is merely a convention which has come to be regarded as truth by being repeatedly declared to be true. If this God or fate is truly the ordainer of everything in this world, of what meaning is any action? The simpleminded who believe in God might well jump into a fire, trusting in God's grace to keep them safe. God will make us bathe, give to the poor and do our spiritual practices. What is the use of the exhortations of the scriptures if God will do everything? In this world, excepting a corpse, everything is active and such activity yields its appropriate result. In this world no one sees God, but we do see mind and intelligence. There are not two things, intelligence and God. Only intelligence is. If between two people of the same intelligence one fails and the other succeeds, God is not the cause, but laziness and effort are. If one thinks God is the director and doer of all things, let this whole world sleep, God will do everything. This may be a consoling outlook, but in truth, there is no God. It was foolish ones who created God. The followers of God will perish. The sages became so by individual effort. Please tell me why the heroic men of valor, the wise and the learned should wait for God? If astrologers predict that a certain man will become wise and he does so without ever studying - - then I will accept that God is great.
Rama, this sage Vishvamitra became a Brahma-Rishi by self-effort; all of us Rishis have attained self-knowledge by self-effort alone. Hence, renounce the chimera of God's providence and apply yourself to self-effort.
Sanskrit had a larger atheistic literature than what exists in any other classical language. Madhava Acharya, the remarkable 14th century philosopher, wrote this rather great book called Sarvadarshansamgraha, which discussed all the religious schools of thought within the Hindu structure. The first chapter is "Atheism" a very strong presentation of the argument in favor of atheism and materialism.
I have posted a few threads, posts on DU about Atheism in Hinduism. I'll post the links here.
The God Project: Hinduism as Open-Source Software/Faith
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x285480
Quick heads up, Atheism has always been/is an accepted philosophical tradition in Hinduism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=314847&mesg_id=315308
Are there any practicing Hindus on DU?
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x270091
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism
Some contemporary examples of Hindu Atheists
1 Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of India
2 Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, the president of Hindu Mahasabha, described himself as a Hindu atheist. He is credited for developing a Hindu nationalist political ideology he termed as Hindutva ("Hinduness" ) . All the Hindu nationalists in India Consider him to be their founding father.
3 Amartya Sen - The Nobel laureate and a self proclaimed Hindu Atheist.
Hinduism is a collection of philosophies so diverse that its hard to define.It is a way of life. Hindus themselves call it by many names, the most common being "Sanatana Dharma" which means "The Eternal way".
"I think I have understood Hinduism correctly when I say that it is eternal, all-embracing and flexible enough to suit all situations."
~Mahatma Gandhi, as quoted in Relentless Brush Strokes : A Memoir
Even one of the most ardent of Missionaries, one who wanted to convert all of Asia, Monier Williams had this to say about Hinduism
"has something to offer which is suited to all minds. Its very strength lies in its infinite adaptability to the infinite diversity of human characters and human tendencies"
~ Monier Williams
I DO hear some people say that they are
buddhist atheists, but they don't mean
that they believe in reincarnation, just
that they hove to certain philosophies.
Belief in Reincarnation and/or karma are not required to be considered a Hindu/Buddhist. And btw Reincarnation and Karma do not require deities.
Furthermore the Hindu and Buddhist philosophies apply "Two Truth's doctrine"
the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine
In the highest form of "Truth" in Hinduism/Buddhism there is
1 No God
2 No karma
3 No reincarnation
all the "karma" and 'reincarnation" go out the window the moment one becomes enlightened, as the aforementioned concepts are crutches for those in the path to enlightenment.
hope this helps
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