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intaglio

(8,170 posts)
33. Look at your post, read it
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 04:08 PM
Aug 2012

and ask yourself, "what is it that is not known?"

If it is "I do not know if there is a god," then that is a-theism, you do not have a god; you may wish there was a god but you have no belief or faith.

If it is "I do not know what I believe," then there is no belief in god (a-theism) just doubt and ignorance of your self (2 words intended).

If it is "I do not know what I believe about god," then that is theism, but not a specific theism.

Now why do I and others reject the term agnostic as a unique set of beliefs? Because it is only defined as a part of an atheist whole. No person with belief can ever be described as agnostic, only those without belief can be so described. With belief, you are a believer even if it is only in some vague contortion of the meaning of "God". Those without that belief are, by definition, a-theist. It is entirely possible to doubt the validity of your non-belief, thus being to a greater or lesser extent agnostic, but you remain within the class a-theist

In my original post I said I lost my faith, a faith that was for me a conceit, a concealment or camouflage and a defence. It was a faith because it was not reasoned; it was irrational, unfounded and unexamined. I very strongly suspect that your understanding of agnosticism is based on similar foundations for you do not defend it except to say, in effect, "It's different because I say it is,"

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Well done and thanks for sharing. cbayer Aug 2012 #1
False equivalence intaglio Aug 2012 #2
You make some assumptions here. cbayer Aug 2012 #3
The only one making broad assumptions here is you. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #4
Now let me give you my answer that isn't intaglio Aug 2012 #25
I disagree with one of your initial premises that it is a black or white issue. cbayer Aug 2012 #28
You are telling me that there are people Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #30
It is absolutely black or white, pun intended intaglio Aug 2012 #31
I think there are many who vacillate and who would tell you that cbayer Aug 2012 #32
Look at your post, read it intaglio Aug 2012 #33
Sorry, this is all semantic play, imo. cbayer Aug 2012 #34
No it is not semantics intaglio Aug 2012 #35
You win. Call me anything you like. cbayer Aug 2012 #36
Why would you have that question for someone who was MineralMan Aug 2012 #5
Because he is making the argument that agnosticism is cowardly cbayer Aug 2012 #6
A statement regarding faith or a lack of it MineralMan Aug 2012 #7
And if someone tells you they simply don't know, don't expect to know cbayer Aug 2012 #10
You may not know, cbayer. And that's just fine with all of us, MineralMan Aug 2012 #12
I don't consider it a false equivalency at all, nor do I expect cbayer Aug 2012 #14
Oh, dear. It is not personal at all. MineralMan Aug 2012 #17
If one took the position that a deity was nothing more than a highly cbayer Aug 2012 #19
I'm not familiar with any such deities. MineralMan Aug 2012 #21
I am not familiar with any deities. cbayer Aug 2012 #22
Because cbayer thinks she's come up with a devastating "gotcha" when it comes to the plain fact... trotsky Aug 2012 #8
Well, that trick might work with dull people. MineralMan Aug 2012 #9
On the contrary, I don't think you or the OP are dull people at all. cbayer Aug 2012 #11
I do not make anything on DU personal. MineralMan Aug 2012 #13
When you start talking about another person, their motives, what they should and should not do, cbayer Aug 2012 #15
Only to the extent that there are persons posting messages in MineralMan Aug 2012 #18
It's not what I mean. cbayer Aug 2012 #20
You just made it personal, though. trotsky Aug 2012 #27
I think I have seen this question before... rexcat Aug 2012 #23
Exactly. cbayer Aug 2012 #24
I have another question. I find your subject line curious. cbayer Aug 2012 #16
Now onto the nitty gritty, What is faith? intaglio Aug 2012 #26
Ok, that makes sense. cbayer Aug 2012 #29
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