Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Religion

In reply to the discussion: bigotry abounds [View all]

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)
72. In response concerning "Bigotry Abounds"
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 02:20 AM
Dec 2011

Yesterday I posted a thread describing the desecration of a Christmas display at the local United Methodist Church, a tableau picturing three couples under the Chrismas star—two of them Gay or Lesbian. I said that in response there was outrage in the community and in support of the church. I went on to say that almost every seminary and hundreds of congregations now welcome GLBT people.

Among the responses were those from the regular religion haters calling me a liar, “You posts blatant falsehoods.” “your falsehoods, inaccuracies and contradictions….” “ you make up the story to fit your agenda.” That easily translates “liar.” From these same posters, not a word about the event. No word about the bigots or the bigotry. No word of support for the church, or for the offended Gay and Lesbian people. No effort to get in the struggle for Gay rights. Only condemnation of me for stating there was rampant outrage in the community. They then referred to a newspaper report stating that the wife of the designing artist was upset that the community had not responded. It was said by my attackers that her statement branded me as a liar

The DU jury to whom their posts went declined to say that these posts calling another poster a liar was not in violation of DU rules because the facts were in dispute. Here are the facts.

I talked this evening to John and Anita Zachery, the artist and his wife. Anita said that the call from the reporter came very early in the process even before most in the community had even heard about the desecration, and she was so upset by the incident she said just what was reported. Since then she has said some very different things, and has contacted the reporter about them. She now is aware of the enormous reaction in the community. Perhaps we will see about this as the newspaper continues to cover the story. The press was present this evening at the vigil.

What was the reaction in the community? The police tried to write off the event as a “bias incident.” When that word got out, pressure was put on the City, and the Police were forced to take another look. Under this community pressure they upped their estimate, not just to a “hate incident,” the next step, but a “hate crime.” This means it will be investigated as a criminal activity. That would not have happened without an aroused populous.

I just returned an hour ago from an outdoor candlelight vigil at the site of the display, where people from all over the community gathered with the members of the Methodist church to sing, pray and forgive. Among the speakers was John Zachary and his wife. John thanked the community for its support and for turning out to stand with him and the church. The singing was led by the cantor of the local synagogue.

In the last day I have received about 40 e-mails from the community asking what can now be done. I am a member of the official municipal committee charged with investigating hate crimes and incidents. We are planning a city-wide forum to deal with this event and how we might further respond. Many members of the committee were present at the vigil.

These are the facts of the case. What is the purpose of those calling me a liar? I had the audacity to say that the religious community is increasingly open and affirming in the welcome and support of GLBT people. And they objected to any mention that something decent can come from religion. But the progressive church has been at the heart of the pro Gay agenda—often fighting off the fundamentalist religionists. It was in the same Methodist church where we met night after night making calls against Prop 8, which denied the right to marry to Gay folks. I indicated in this thread that hundred of churches were open and affirming. And they are. I did not lie about that, as I was accused of doing.

Among the many websites I suggested was
www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/find_a_church.ht
which lists hundred of churches in every state and throughout the world.

While there are those of us hard at work confronting bigotry and making a way for our brothers and sisters, we must continually fight the indecent backfire of those who ought to be joining us in the battle instead of sniping. In WWII 20 percent of
American casualties were mistakenly shot by our own troops. We are fighting some pretty tough battles for decency and human rights. To continually be shot at by those with some other agenda and who are using DU as the firing range–those who ought to be our colleagues--accomplishes nothing else but to make the fight more difficult. And when DU doesn’t even consider these attacks as personal, and allows them to continue, the fight is even more difficult.

I will not continue this debate nor deal any more with those attacking what I stand for. I had hoped that there would be a new spirit with DU 3, but so far that has not been the case.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

bigotry abounds [View all] Thats my opinion Dec 2011 OP
Wow! Sorry to hear that. Keep up the good fight. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #1
Churches are never immune MarkCharles Dec 2011 #2
The ONLY places? dmallind Dec 2011 #3
There may be a gay bar. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #5
"The bigots are not yet unidentified." Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #4
Obvious mistake. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #7
As to the mistake, I was just trying to point out the error. Nothing more. Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #9
Well, we do know that skepticscott Dec 2011 #10
almost almost almost all! MarkCharles Dec 2011 #11
Not everyone. Maybe not even most. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #12
Did you or did you not post these exact words? skepticscott Dec 2011 #13
Contradictions are hard to explain! Especially among MarkCharles Dec 2011 #15
You don't really care if things in the religious world are opening up to GLBT people. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #30
IOW, "pay no attention to my contradictions, and just do your best to infer my meaning." cleanhippie Dec 2011 #34
No, what we care about is whether skepticscott Dec 2011 #35
Take a look Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #49
And your point is what? skepticscott Dec 2011 #62
Apparently you can't skepticscott Dec 2011 #108
Do you live in the Inland Empire? n/t Irishonly Dec 2011 #6
Irish, Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #8
Looks as if I probably have identified someone else. Sorry. rt Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #33
Haven't been on computer Irishonly Dec 2011 #38
Ex 909er here. Iggo Dec 2011 #55
Yep Irishonly Dec 2011 #59
Oh yeah. IE is redredred. (nt) Iggo Dec 2011 #70
Tragic and I hope they find those that did it. OTOH, this thread is enlightening. cbayer Dec 2011 #14
Hypocrisy and dishonesty skepticscott Dec 2011 #16
I guess if that is what you are looking for, that is what you will see. cbayer Dec 2011 #17
Well, it's hard not to see it skepticscott Dec 2011 #19
A couple of them are now on ignore. I just won't engage in DU 3 what i did in 2 Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #31
I know he's your dad, and it's charming that you're defending him EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #63
I understand that and appreciate the way you have responded here. cbayer Dec 2011 #88
You had me until you started to make things up. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #100
As I have not excercised a single option available to me as a group host, cbayer Dec 2011 #101
So who are these skepticscott Dec 2011 #106
She will not say, I'm sure. To do so would only confirm what "we" already know. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #139
I think a real apology would have gone a long way to soothing some hurt feelings EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #105
This is one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts I have read concerning cbayer Dec 2011 #115
The habit of bestowing blessings skepticscott Dec 2011 #118
It never occured to me that giving someone kudos on a post cbayer Dec 2011 #119
Uh, you tell them skepticscott Dec 2011 #121
Again, I see your point. cbayer Dec 2011 #122
Just another point, as I dwell on this. cbayer Dec 2011 #123
Yes, that does happen, and such statements are generally made skepticscott Jan 2012 #137
Me too! EvolveOrConvolve Dec 2011 #127
In real life tama Jan 2012 #136
So how do you square your statement that skepticscott Dec 2011 #18
Wow, you really helped me make my point here. cbayer Dec 2011 #20
Yes, he looked for the truth, and he found it. laconicsax Dec 2011 #21
Or perhaps it's is just one person's personal perspective and another's personal perspective. cbayer Dec 2011 #22
I think your judgement may be clouded in this case. n/t laconicsax Dec 2011 #23
I don't know about my judgement, but I do know my father. cbayer Dec 2011 #25
Wow. No one called anyone a liar, but you felt the need to say that. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #28
"You just never get tired of making things up, do you?" cbayer Dec 2011 #29
Like I stated, your comment served no purpose other than to shut down cleanhippie Dec 2011 #32
Well, please provide us with your explanation skepticscott Dec 2011 #37
Apparently you have no explanation skepticscott Dec 2011 #109
My only explanation is that different people have different perceptions cbayer Dec 2011 #117
Sheesh, did you even read my question? skepticscott Dec 2011 #120
Which doesn't even come close to explaining skepticscott Dec 2011 #24
Your linked article doesn't say anything about people not hearing cbayer Dec 2011 #26
Just to say, she's not seeing any outrage. laconicsax Dec 2011 #27
The article says that the artist's wife skepticscott Dec 2011 #36
The OP lives in the community Irishonly Dec 2011 #45
Do you have evidence that skepticscott Dec 2011 #47
Looking for alternative Irishonly Dec 2011 #52
Do you have any EVIDENCE skepticscott Dec 2011 #64
Why don't you tell me when the wife was asked? Irishonly Dec 2011 #66
Gee, how about evidence from the person quoted skepticscott Dec 2011 #107
My opinion because I am not going to post link after link that wouldn't be believed anyway Irishonly Dec 2011 #110
I saw this on latest threads. I try to avoid this group Irishonly Dec 2011 #111
Would you be comfortable saying why you avoid this group? cbayer Dec 2011 #116
I am not comfortable with the snarking that goes on in here Irishonly Dec 2011 #124
Thanks for that. I hope you will reconsider and cbayer Dec 2011 #125
He found it because it was there. Iggo Dec 2011 #56
I know where the church is. n/t Irishonly Dec 2011 #39
Irish, good to know you are in the community. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #40
If there's so much outrage, why hasn't the Ms. Zachary noticed it? laconicsax Dec 2011 #41
Bye. n/t cleanhippie Dec 2011 #42
She will be at the community-wide rally tonight nt Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #50
That's nice, now can you answer my question? laconicsax Dec 2011 #57
I love Pilgrim Place Irishonly Dec 2011 #43
Next year at the festival stop by the arts booth and see some of my paintings and cards. nt Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #51
We have seen each other Irishonly Dec 2011 #53
They are my neighbors and old friends. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #60
Two of the most wonderful people put on the face of the earth. Irishonly Dec 2011 #61
Face it, you made things up skepticscott Dec 2011 #46
I guess I just don't get your agenda here. cbayer Dec 2011 #48
I guess I just don't get why you are answering for your father and not seeing the problem here. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #54
+1 Heddi Dec 2011 #58
+1 wakemeupwhenitsover Dec 2011 #75
+1 Heddi Dec 2011 #77
This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Dec 2011 #84
This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Dec 2011 #85
I have every right to defend anyone I want, and I particularly have the right to cbayer Dec 2011 #82
Oh please...threatened?? skepticscott Dec 2011 #112
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #140
So when falsehoods, inaccuracies and contradictions skepticscott Dec 2011 #65
Please. I never "attacked" him for a grammatical error. Goblinmonger Dec 2011 #71
You backed off and even apologized, and my respsect for your increased exponentially cbayer Dec 2011 #83
The gays who were the butt of the action can't be married in the UMC church where the nativity was, Critters2 Dec 2011 #69
Place not Pines Irishonly Dec 2011 #44
This story has reached China. rug Dec 2011 #67
The United Methodist Church is not welcoming of lgbt people. Its policies are the same as those of Critters2 Dec 2011 #68
In response concerning "Bigotry Abounds" Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #72
You know, Charles... laconicsax Dec 2011 #73
+1 wakemeupwhenitsover Dec 2011 #76
+1 Heddi Dec 2011 #78
The United Methodist Church world wide, Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #89
You want to hear how I'm involved in the struggle to make the UMC less homophobic? laconicsax Dec 2011 #92
Please don't blame it entirely on the African bishops. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #103
participate? Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #91
And about half of those are you chit-chatting with a neighbor. laconicsax Dec 2011 #93
seven ain't bad. Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #95
You mean thank them for doing the right thing for a change? laconicsax Dec 2011 #97
That church has a long distinguish record of supporting Gay causes--with persons, money and Thats my opinion Dec 2011 #98
"I'll respond--and do--to serious questions..." I look forward to seeing this change. n/t laconicsax Dec 2011 #99
As do many other Methodist congregations across the country but I guess that counts for nothing here Leontius Dec 2011 #102
"They have already performed gay ceremonies." LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #104
"But I will no longer engage in useless diatribes. " Does that mean you are done posting? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #141
Your questions were not legitimate, they were nit-picking and your conclusion is wrong. kwassa Dec 2011 #113
Interesting...a Christian and an atheist make the same claim and you go after the atheist... laconicsax Dec 2011 #114
Not that interesting, and you make my point for me. kwassa Dec 2011 #128
Are you serious? laconicsax Dec 2011 #130
Yes, I am serious. kwassa Jan 2012 #131
So you don't see calling homosexuality a "practice" as homophobic. laconicsax Jan 2012 #132
Thank you for not answering my question. kwassa Jan 2012 #133
Your quasi-appeal to tradition is cute. laconicsax Jan 2012 #134
So is your lack of historical knowledge. kwassa Jan 2012 #148
Rationalize all you want. You are defending homophobia. n/t laconicsax Jan 2012 #149
Because you say so? Oh, please. kwassa Jan 2012 #150
Please point out where you've condemned homophobia in this thread. laconicsax Jan 2012 #151
But I thought you had them all on ignore. Iggo Dec 2011 #74
Uhm, Yeah, Charles. Its us, not you. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #81
another modest reply deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #86
At the risk of getting this deleted or hidden wakemeupwhenitsover Dec 2011 #79
Bwahahahahahahaha! cleanhippie Dec 2011 #80
well, if I'm on the jury, you're safe. n/t deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #87
Thanks wmuwio! cbayer Dec 2011 #90
+1 wakemeupwhenitsover Dec 2011 #94
Aw, c'mon. You can do better than that. cbayer Dec 2011 #96
Sure could if Skinner would wakemeupwhenitsover Jan 2012 #138
Oh, SNAP!!!!! cleanhippie Jan 2012 #142
rofl Heddi Jan 2012 #143
So you want the church praised for doing the "right" thing? mr blur Dec 2011 #126
I think the church should be praised for doing the right thing. kwassa Dec 2011 #129
That wasn't the point of the OP mr blur Jan 2012 #135
no, it is the point of the OP kwassa Jan 2012 #144
You have no idea what I 'm talking about? mr blur Jan 2012 #145
You would do well to try. kwassa Jan 2012 #147
I don't have any idea either. cordelia Jan 2012 #146
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»bigotry abounds»Reply #72