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Religion

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SarahM32

(270 posts)
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:51 PM Aug 2012

Does the book of Isaiah say anything about Jesus of Nazareth? [View all]

Last edited Sun Mar 31, 2013, 03:14 PM - Edit history (2)

Christianity was built upon the idea that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible (Torah and Tanakh), or will when he "comes again."

Christianity was also built on the theology of Christian Apologetics, which was established by the evangelist Paul and submits that Christianity supersedes Judaism and "overrules" it. And that, of course, rankles Rabbinical Jews, Talmudic Jews, Kabbalistic Jews and liberal and progressive Christians, among others who know differently.

Part of the problem is that Paul and the apostles of Jesus whose work made it into the official church canon got their ideas of how and why Jesus fulfilled prophecy from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. The King James English translation was later influenced by that even though it was translated from both the Hebrew the Greek translation. And the problem is that the Septuagint contains certain words that are different from the original Hebrew texts.

For example, the original book of Isaiah in Hebrew does not used the word "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14, as the Septuagint does. Instead, it uses the term "young woman" (almah). And, as an article on The Virgin Birth Story reveals, while some Christians rationalize that the word almah could also mean virgin, they ignore the fact that there is a Hebrew word that actually does mean "virgin." It is "bethulah," and it is used in Isaiah 23:12, 37:22, 47:1, and 62:5. Therefore, the author of the original book of Isaiah was well aware of the word for virgin and yet purposely did not use it in Isaiah 7:14.

Another example is in Isaiah 53, which Christians depends on heavily to "prove" that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. After all, it does mention of the Mashiach "anointed one" that "with his stripes we are healed." (assuming that the "stripes" were from the whipping Jesus endured on the last day of his life.)

However, as an article on Isaiah Chapter 53 reveals, the original Hebrew reveals a different story. And to give you an idea, here is Isaiah 53:3-6 in a modern English translation of the original Hebrew as preserved and reflected in the Masoretic text:

"He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face. He was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light on him the iniquity of us all."

The article also points out that Isaiah 53:5 does not say, “He was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities,” which is what Christians have written to ascribe the prophecy to Jesus. Rather, the proper translation is: “He was wounded because of our transgressions, and crushed because of our iniquities.

That means that the servant of God suffered as a result of the sinfulness and iniquity of others, not that he suffered to atone for the sins and iniquity of others. In fact, the Messiah is sent as a counselor who delivers judgment and guidance, and the misguided theology of Christian Apologetics directly contradicts the basic Jewish teaching that forgiveness is promised to all who sincerely return to God. Therefore, there is no need for the Messiah to atone for others (Isaiah 55:6-7, Jeremiah 36:3, Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, Hoseah 14:1-3, Jonah 3:6-10, Proverbs 16:6, Daniel 4:27, 2-Chronicles 7:14).

The article points out that: His "silence" goes with his being “hidden” and merely delivering the message before him, without bringing attention to himself, without exalting himself, without rising up and seeking the limelight as a famous politician or preacher (as Isaiah prophesied). And it goes with his willingness to "offer his soul in restitution."

The leaders of today's "Christian Right," of course, do everything they can to fight and discredit that, because it proves that the book of Isaiah is not about Jesus of Nazareth but about the modern son of man. But the truth about Isaiah's prophecies is just part of a huge amount of growing evidence that show how and why the actual prophecies of Isaiah and Jesus are about the same modern son of man.
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Interesting. MineralMan Aug 2012 #1
As a seminary graduate I'd say: Ezlivin Aug 2012 #2
As a scholar help me out here please - Nazareth wasn't in the Bible? dballance Aug 2012 #3
I don't recall discussing that in seminary Ezlivin Aug 2012 #11
So the seminary does not cover the whole Bible in their classes? LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #16
No, not at all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #17
I wasn't referring to Nazareth or anything like that. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #18
We covered it all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #19
Thank you for the insight. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #20
I hope not Ezlivin Aug 2012 #24
Madelyn Murray O'Hare and Jim Morrison were seminary students alfredo Aug 2012 #26
Jesus being "from Nazareth" or being a "Nazarene" is mentioned 28 times in the NT. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #12
Thanks for the info. Which Bible Version? dballance Aug 2012 #14
Here are the numbers from KJV and NIV SarahM32 Aug 2012 #23
Most seminary graduates would not say no. They're taught the answer is yes. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #7
K&R - I want to hear from someone who knows the answers to the poster and the commenters. northoftheborder Aug 2012 #4
You're asking for a bit too much. An area of a great deal of disagreement. dimbear Aug 2012 #28
The three Isaiah and Jesus Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #5
Yes, many scholars say the book of Isaiah had three authors. But ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #10
3 authors from 3 completely diferent periods of Judean History intaglio Aug 2012 #22
The translated quote from Isaiah that you include has a lot of the same cbayer Aug 2012 #6
Handel uses several exclusively Old Testament texts--and this is one. nt Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #8
Handel used Isaiah's words. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #9
Interesting website. Linguistically, historically I'm interested in the course of bible translations pinto Aug 2012 #13
Background and purpose of the site. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #15
One big problem intaglio Aug 2012 #21
It's not really a problem. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #25
The site you so proudly promote intaglio Aug 2012 #27
Not so. In fact, the site refutes the theology of Christian Apologetics. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #29
Being Jeffersonian does not mean that you abandon apologetics intaglio Aug 2012 #30
Intaglio, I disagree. And here's why: SarahM32 Aug 2012 #32
I said he was an apologist. Many faiths have apologists intaglio Aug 2012 #35
No. Jefferson was not an Apologist. And furthermore ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #36
Well I can forgive you for misreading my sentence about Jefferson intaglio Aug 2012 #38
Well, since you put it that way ... I will say this: SarahM32 Sep 2012 #48
There are literary apologists intaglio Sep 2012 #49
Oh brother. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #50
You have stopped listening intaglio Sep 2012 #51
'Tis the other way around. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #54
You continue in your false description of apologetics intaglio Sep 2012 #55
Please. Let's be accurate. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #57
Again, apologetics is not just Christian, Isa is not the word you used intaglio Sep 2012 #59
Again, that's not relevant and avoids the issue. And ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #60
I repeat only to be ignored by you again intaglio Sep 2012 #61
Okay, for the last time ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #62
You distort and ignore, you are trapped in a web of deceit intaglio Sep 2012 #63
The relationship between Old Testament materials Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #31
Well, I wouldn't say that. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #33
Again you are speaking of "The Book of Isaiah" as if it is a singular production intaglio Aug 2012 #34
No, I am not. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #37
A fiat that you are right and others are wrong intaglio Aug 2012 #39
I think both of you have made some serious points. Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #41
Thanks. And ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #43
Why it's more than mere hope. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #65
It has nothing to do with "profession" or money. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #66
There's an introduction to the 1611 King James Bible by its translators indicating Petrushka Aug 2012 #40
However, Strong in particular, Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #42
Yes. Thank you again. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #45
Petrushka, that's just more Apologetics, and ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #44
Thanks for the link. Just discovered what the "messenger for the Spirit of truth" believes . . . Petrushka Aug 2012 #46
That story was published in February 2002. There's a more recent one online. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #47
FWIW: The writer of those articles, refers to himself in the thrid person, saying . . . Petrushka Sep 2012 #52
Ah, but you miss some very crucial facts. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #53
"...when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." ?? Petrushka Sep 2012 #56
So, in other words, you will not address the facts, and simply ignore the truth? SarahM32 Sep 2012 #58
Why it's important that the book of Isaiah is not about Jesus SarahM32 Sep 2012 #64
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