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In reply to the discussion: Why Science Can’t Replace Religion [View all]tama
(9,137 posts)102. Recreation myth
Most interesting for me in that article was the link to the Navajo myth. An excerpt:
When he arrived at Dibé Nitsaa, Naayééʼ Neizghání saw an old woman walking slowly toward him, leaning on a staff. Her back was bent. Her hair was white. Her arms and hands were bony. "Old grandmother, I have come to kill you," he said. "I do you no harm, grandson," she replied. "Think it over before you kill me. Once the people discover that Są́ will no longer slowly sap their strength with the passing of years and finally devour them, they will have no children. It is better that people should pass on their wisdom and responsibilities to those who are younger, and finally die." "I will spare you," replied Naayééʼ Neizghání. And he returned without a trophy.
"Hakʼaz Asdzą́ą́, the Cold Woman, still lives," whispered Níłchʼi The Wind to Monster Slayer. "Each year she freezes the earth. She covers the streams with ice. She kills the plants so that the vines bear no melons and the stalks bear no corn." "Mother," demanded Naayééʼ Neizghání, tell me where I might find the dwelling of Hakʼaz Asdzą́ą́." Changing Woman refused to answer. But Níłchʼi, The Wind, whispered, "She lives high on the summet of Dibé Nitsaa, where the mountain sheep are." Monster Slayer traveled to Dibé Nitsaa and found a lean old woman sitting above the tree line without clothing, on the snow. No roof sheltered her. Her skin was pale as the snow. "Grandmother," said Monster Slayer," I am here to kill you." "You may kill me," said Cold Woman. "But once I am dead, it will always be hot on the earth. The land will dry up. The springs will cease to flow. Over the years the people will perish." Listening to her words, Naayééʼ Neizghání said, "I will spare you." And he returned without a trophy.
"Téʼéʼį́ Dineʼé, the Poverty Creatures, still live," whispered Níłchʼi into his ear. They destroy people by gradually using up possessions. They will leave no tools for anyone to use, and no clothing to wear." Monster Slayer asked Changing Woman where the Poverty Creatures dwelled, but she refused to tell him. "They live at Dził dah Neeztínii, the Roof Butte Mountain," said Níłchʼi. Naayééʼ Neizghání traveled there, and found a tattered old man and a filthy old woman. Their garments were in shreds, and in their house they had no goods. They had no food, no baskets, no bowls. "Grandmother, Grandfather," said Monster Slayer, "It gives me no pleasure, but I have come to kill you. Then people will not suffer from want." "Think a moment," they said. "If we were to die, people would not replace anything, or improve on their tools. By causing things to wear out, we lead people to invent new things. Garments become more beautiful. Tools become more useful. People appreciate what they have." Monster Slayer said, "What you say is true. I will spare you." And he returned without a trophy.
"Dichin Hastiin, Hunger Man, still exists," whispered Níłchʼi. "He lives at Tłʼoh adaasgaii, White Spot of Grass." When he arrived there, Naayééʼ Neizghání found twelve ravenous creatures who ate anything that grew. The largest of them was Dichin Hastiin. "I have come here to kill you," said Naayééʼ Neizghání. "Then people will not feel the pangs of hunger and they will not starve for want of food." "I do not blame you for wanting me dead," said Dichin Hastiin. "But if you kill us, people will lose their taste for food. They will never know the pleasure of cooking and eating. But if we live, they will continue to plant seeds and harvest crops, and they will remain skilled hunters." After hearing these words, Monster Slayer returned without a trophy.
"Hakʼaz Asdzą́ą́, the Cold Woman, still lives," whispered Níłchʼi The Wind to Monster Slayer. "Each year she freezes the earth. She covers the streams with ice. She kills the plants so that the vines bear no melons and the stalks bear no corn." "Mother," demanded Naayééʼ Neizghání, tell me where I might find the dwelling of Hakʼaz Asdzą́ą́." Changing Woman refused to answer. But Níłchʼi, The Wind, whispered, "She lives high on the summet of Dibé Nitsaa, where the mountain sheep are." Monster Slayer traveled to Dibé Nitsaa and found a lean old woman sitting above the tree line without clothing, on the snow. No roof sheltered her. Her skin was pale as the snow. "Grandmother," said Monster Slayer," I am here to kill you." "You may kill me," said Cold Woman. "But once I am dead, it will always be hot on the earth. The land will dry up. The springs will cease to flow. Over the years the people will perish." Listening to her words, Naayééʼ Neizghání said, "I will spare you." And he returned without a trophy.
"Téʼéʼį́ Dineʼé, the Poverty Creatures, still live," whispered Níłchʼi into his ear. They destroy people by gradually using up possessions. They will leave no tools for anyone to use, and no clothing to wear." Monster Slayer asked Changing Woman where the Poverty Creatures dwelled, but she refused to tell him. "They live at Dził dah Neeztínii, the Roof Butte Mountain," said Níłchʼi. Naayééʼ Neizghání traveled there, and found a tattered old man and a filthy old woman. Their garments were in shreds, and in their house they had no goods. They had no food, no baskets, no bowls. "Grandmother, Grandfather," said Monster Slayer, "It gives me no pleasure, but I have come to kill you. Then people will not suffer from want." "Think a moment," they said. "If we were to die, people would not replace anything, or improve on their tools. By causing things to wear out, we lead people to invent new things. Garments become more beautiful. Tools become more useful. People appreciate what they have." Monster Slayer said, "What you say is true. I will spare you." And he returned without a trophy.
"Dichin Hastiin, Hunger Man, still exists," whispered Níłchʼi. "He lives at Tłʼoh adaasgaii, White Spot of Grass." When he arrived there, Naayééʼ Neizghání found twelve ravenous creatures who ate anything that grew. The largest of them was Dichin Hastiin. "I have come here to kill you," said Naayééʼ Neizghání. "Then people will not feel the pangs of hunger and they will not starve for want of food." "I do not blame you for wanting me dead," said Dichin Hastiin. "But if you kill us, people will lose their taste for food. They will never know the pleasure of cooking and eating. But if we live, they will continue to plant seeds and harvest crops, and they will remain skilled hunters." After hearing these words, Monster Slayer returned without a trophy.
How many DUers does it take to recreate the mythical battle between science and spirituality? Which twin is the Monster Slayer Hero and which the Monster, does that really matter? If the Monster - either science or spirituality, take your pick - were to die, what would be the trophy?
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Is this a fight between believers and non believers? People who are firm in their beliefs do not
upaloopa
Aug 2012
#1
Religion throughout history attempted to explain the unexplainable until science explained it.
Lint Head
Aug 2012
#10
Your link takes me to Discover Magazine, but I get: Error 404 - Not Found - once there.
Jim__
Aug 2012
#11
How does mathematics, neurology, population genetics and behavioral science explain morality?
rug
Aug 2012
#20
If it's simply behavioral, and the result of . . . whatever, then it's not morality.
rug
Aug 2012
#28
Of all the things that can be known, I would suggest that we know a minuscule amount.
cbayer
Aug 2012
#22
Because science doesn't promise you'll go to heaven if you believe in it and give it money?
truebrit71
Aug 2012
#27
"For those who cannot follow the mathematics, belief in the Higgs is an act of faith, ...
Jim__
Aug 2012
#37
No, belief in the Higgs boson is not the same as belief in Brunei or tsetse flies.
Jim__
Aug 2012
#85
Believing in the Higgs boson is fundamentally different than believing in electrons because ...
Jim__
Aug 2012
#96
No, actually I didn't just make up the fact that just about anyone can run an equivalent ...
Jim__
Aug 2012
#116
For those who cannot follow the mathematics, belief in the Higgs is an act of faith *in science*.
enki23
Aug 2012
#78
The article suggests religion has been around for a long time, won't go away. It's like
dimbear
Aug 2012
#50
You can understand that religion has emotional power without believing any of the dumbshit tenets
Nay
Aug 2012
#53
As Einstein said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
SarahM32
Aug 2012
#73
Oh for fuck's sake. Science is constantly replacing religion as an understanding of the world
enki23
Aug 2012
#76
My position is that despite all that science has taught us, we know only the most
cbayer
Aug 2012
#79
Science is the process by which we encroach ever further into the former provinces of of the divine.
enki23
Aug 2012
#81
Well, it's great to know that someone around here has the definitive and final answers
cbayer
Aug 2012
#82
"rational explanation...can't match the feeling evoked by...religious symbolism"
PassingFair
Aug 2012
#90