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intaglio

(8,170 posts)
59. Again, apologetics is not just Christian, Isa is not the word you used
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 03:56 AM
Sep 2012

Google "Muslim Apologetics" or "Buddhist Apologetics" or "Hindu Apologetics". Guess what? you get many results and not just from Christian sites.
Apologetics is the practise of issuing apologia
You may continue to lie about it all you please, and bolster your falsehood by use of dubious or incomplete dictionary quotations, but it does not alter the facts of the case.

"Debunkers who never debunked" - proof, or do you just accept the words of your teachers without thought or personal research. Notovich was a known liar. His fantasy journey did not match the topography of Tibet and there are numerous other falsehoods in his work. I did not get that from Wikipedia, it's something I have known since the 70's when I investigated Theosophy and talked to people in Oriental Manuscripts and Printed Books about the substance free confection. Back in the 90's, when I became involved with Forteanism, I rechecked my recollection and found it correct in all respects. Another check on the internet prior to answering your nonsense. I repeat if you believe in Notovich you are believing in a known fraud.

Did you actually read what you quoted from Deardoff? All he is doing is quoting Abhedananda and accepting that persons word as gospel truth.

And how do you get the idea that Abhedananda was a skeptic? Accepting the account you quote;
1) Via a translator he asked to see a particular text;
2) He saw a book;
3) He did not see the text in the book;
4) His translator did not see the text in the book;
5) The Abbot spoke some words that the translator said were from the book;
6) The translator then spoke a supposed translation to Abhedananda;
7) Abhedananda did not even attempt to see the text.
This is not skepticism, this is either blindly accepting the words of 2 others or plausible deniability, personally I suspect the latter.

You also seem to believe that Ume is a dialect, it isn't. It is the name of a script, commonly used across Northern India and the Himalayas, which a Swami could easily have copied even if he did not have the sense of the words. You could copy words in French without knowing their meaning.

Let's add in some other little problems. Where did Abhedananda get the money for his expedition? How was he able to get the permissions? How long did his journey take? Why is there no remembrance of him? Why was there no camera to provide visual evidence of the journey, if not the manuscript. The first of these problems is easily answered, Abhedananda was a known confederate of the Theosophists and they were eager for proof of their ridiculous ideas. Whether he used the money they provided in the way he said is moot.

Of course the same criticisms apply to the Roerich "expedition" with the added frisson that Roerich was a leader of the cult he whose teachings blatantly seeking to confirm.

You again provide a false description of Roerich:

In 1925, the Russian philosopher Nicholas Roerich ...

Roerich was an artist. He trained in art in St Petersburg. His works preserved in New York and elsewhere are paintings and some architectural drawings. He and his wife were established leaders of the Theosophical movement. I have highlighted the words to which you should pay attention - as you appear to lack comprehension.

Now Isa or Issa - do make your mind up, at first you tell me that it is the Islamic name for Jesus (Issa) now you say it is the Sanskrit for "Lord" . If there was any such person in the Himalayas and Northern India who was Jesus - why is there no other record except that in one monastery that now denies there was any such document and has no record of the visitors you claim were there? There is less evidence for your version of Jesus than there is for the Biblical one, which means there is none.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Interesting. MineralMan Aug 2012 #1
As a seminary graduate I'd say: Ezlivin Aug 2012 #2
As a scholar help me out here please - Nazareth wasn't in the Bible? dballance Aug 2012 #3
I don't recall discussing that in seminary Ezlivin Aug 2012 #11
So the seminary does not cover the whole Bible in their classes? LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #16
No, not at all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #17
I wasn't referring to Nazareth or anything like that. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #18
We covered it all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #19
Thank you for the insight. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #20
I hope not Ezlivin Aug 2012 #24
Madelyn Murray O'Hare and Jim Morrison were seminary students alfredo Aug 2012 #26
Jesus being "from Nazareth" or being a "Nazarene" is mentioned 28 times in the NT. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #12
Thanks for the info. Which Bible Version? dballance Aug 2012 #14
Here are the numbers from KJV and NIV SarahM32 Aug 2012 #23
Most seminary graduates would not say no. They're taught the answer is yes. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #7
K&R - I want to hear from someone who knows the answers to the poster and the commenters. northoftheborder Aug 2012 #4
You're asking for a bit too much. An area of a great deal of disagreement. dimbear Aug 2012 #28
The three Isaiah and Jesus Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #5
Yes, many scholars say the book of Isaiah had three authors. But ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #10
3 authors from 3 completely diferent periods of Judean History intaglio Aug 2012 #22
The translated quote from Isaiah that you include has a lot of the same cbayer Aug 2012 #6
Handel uses several exclusively Old Testament texts--and this is one. nt Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #8
Handel used Isaiah's words. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #9
Interesting website. Linguistically, historically I'm interested in the course of bible translations pinto Aug 2012 #13
Background and purpose of the site. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #15
One big problem intaglio Aug 2012 #21
It's not really a problem. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #25
The site you so proudly promote intaglio Aug 2012 #27
Not so. In fact, the site refutes the theology of Christian Apologetics. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #29
Being Jeffersonian does not mean that you abandon apologetics intaglio Aug 2012 #30
Intaglio, I disagree. And here's why: SarahM32 Aug 2012 #32
I said he was an apologist. Many faiths have apologists intaglio Aug 2012 #35
No. Jefferson was not an Apologist. And furthermore ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #36
Well I can forgive you for misreading my sentence about Jefferson intaglio Aug 2012 #38
Well, since you put it that way ... I will say this: SarahM32 Sep 2012 #48
There are literary apologists intaglio Sep 2012 #49
Oh brother. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #50
You have stopped listening intaglio Sep 2012 #51
'Tis the other way around. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #54
You continue in your false description of apologetics intaglio Sep 2012 #55
Please. Let's be accurate. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #57
Again, apologetics is not just Christian, Isa is not the word you used intaglio Sep 2012 #59
Again, that's not relevant and avoids the issue. And ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #60
I repeat only to be ignored by you again intaglio Sep 2012 #61
Okay, for the last time ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #62
You distort and ignore, you are trapped in a web of deceit intaglio Sep 2012 #63
The relationship between Old Testament materials Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #31
Well, I wouldn't say that. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #33
Again you are speaking of "The Book of Isaiah" as if it is a singular production intaglio Aug 2012 #34
No, I am not. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #37
A fiat that you are right and others are wrong intaglio Aug 2012 #39
I think both of you have made some serious points. Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #41
Thanks. And ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #43
Why it's more than mere hope. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #65
It has nothing to do with "profession" or money. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #66
There's an introduction to the 1611 King James Bible by its translators indicating Petrushka Aug 2012 #40
However, Strong in particular, Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #42
Yes. Thank you again. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #45
Petrushka, that's just more Apologetics, and ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #44
Thanks for the link. Just discovered what the "messenger for the Spirit of truth" believes . . . Petrushka Aug 2012 #46
That story was published in February 2002. There's a more recent one online. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #47
FWIW: The writer of those articles, refers to himself in the thrid person, saying . . . Petrushka Sep 2012 #52
Ah, but you miss some very crucial facts. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #53
"...when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." ?? Petrushka Sep 2012 #56
So, in other words, you will not address the facts, and simply ignore the truth? SarahM32 Sep 2012 #58
Why it's important that the book of Isaiah is not about Jesus SarahM32 Sep 2012 #64
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