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intaglio

(8,170 posts)
61. I repeat only to be ignored by you again
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 06:03 PM
Sep 2012
Element 1
An Apologist is one who issues an apologia, this is called apologetics

An apologia is a defense of something or someone.

Apologetics has come to be commonly associated with defense of religious beliefs but literary apologia also exist.

Jefferson was issuing and apologia, a defense, of his view of Jesus. Thus he was an apologist. The reality of his Deist faith is irrelevant to that fact.

Claiming that Jefferson's faith denied him the ability to issue an apologia is a falsehood.

There you go, I have said clearly that Jefferson was both a deist and an apologist. You will deny my statement because you are deliberately using an inadequate and falsely limited description of apologetics. You're wrong, hard luck.

Element 2
Will you please decide what spelling, Issa or Isa you wish to use. There is a distinct difference in pronunciation if not in transliteration.

If the former you are using a word that doesn't exist but might be a variant of the Arabic usage for Jesus. In this case you are saying that a young man from Judea went to Tibet and used a variant of his name that would not be current for 600 or more years.

If the latter you are saying that someone called "The Lord" spent some time in Tibet learning at the knee of Tibetan masters. There is no evidence that "The Lord" was Jesus. Jesus, would not have been called "The Lord" at that time.The monks would not have found out about his Christian title "The Lord" until several hundred years later and would not have been able to connect that later title to the young man who visited so long before.

Element 3
Notovich, let me begin by ignoring the incongruities in his story and accept that he did get to Hemis. If he did he did not visit the monastery and he did not suffer a broken leg, if the story is true he had a toothache and left after visiting a German doctor. I will accept that the unnamed Russian of this story was Notovich. It does not explain the concurrent denial by the Abbot that the Russian ever visited him.

It matters not, for Notovich published his little bombshell about Issa in 1897 many years after his purported arrival in Hemis. It may have escaped your notice that Blavatski had formalised her nonsense about a Tibetan educated Jesus in 1875. What is more Blavatski was the much loved daughter of a well connected Tsarist family and had been coining money from the gullible for years. I would suggest that these facts might, possibly, be connected.

Element 4
Why do you persist in believing that Abhedananda and Roerich were independent? To do this you need to do the following:
a) Ignore the years Blavaski spent in India;
b) Ignore her association with, and funding of, other "Vedantic" scholars;
c) Ignore the funding the Theosophists provided to Abhedananda;
d) Ignore the leading role Roerich played in the Theosophical movement;
e) Ignore the lack of photographic or other documentary evidence about either visit to the monastery;
f) Ignore Roerich's impossible itinerary.

You and others also accept as gospel the statement by Abhedananda that he was "skeptical" in which case you must accept my statement that I have a hidden certainty that there is a God. As my statement is patently false it is equally possible that Abhedananda's statement may have embroidered the truth, perhaps "added verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing argument,"

Element 5
Hearsay evidence is not evidence. In this modern climate "Photographs (or recordings) or it did not happen". In the case of the later assertions, how many tourists asking "Do you have stories about Jesus in this monastery?" would it take for the monks to catch on and say "Yes, we do have them - but no-one is allowed to see them, they're too sacred, (all donations toward the preservation of this monastery gratefully received)"

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Interesting. MineralMan Aug 2012 #1
As a seminary graduate I'd say: Ezlivin Aug 2012 #2
As a scholar help me out here please - Nazareth wasn't in the Bible? dballance Aug 2012 #3
I don't recall discussing that in seminary Ezlivin Aug 2012 #11
So the seminary does not cover the whole Bible in their classes? LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #16
No, not at all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #17
I wasn't referring to Nazareth or anything like that. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #18
We covered it all Ezlivin Aug 2012 #19
Thank you for the insight. LiberalFighter Aug 2012 #20
I hope not Ezlivin Aug 2012 #24
Madelyn Murray O'Hare and Jim Morrison were seminary students alfredo Aug 2012 #26
Jesus being "from Nazareth" or being a "Nazarene" is mentioned 28 times in the NT. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #12
Thanks for the info. Which Bible Version? dballance Aug 2012 #14
Here are the numbers from KJV and NIV SarahM32 Aug 2012 #23
Most seminary graduates would not say no. They're taught the answer is yes. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #7
K&R - I want to hear from someone who knows the answers to the poster and the commenters. northoftheborder Aug 2012 #4
You're asking for a bit too much. An area of a great deal of disagreement. dimbear Aug 2012 #28
The three Isaiah and Jesus Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #5
Yes, many scholars say the book of Isaiah had three authors. But ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #10
3 authors from 3 completely diferent periods of Judean History intaglio Aug 2012 #22
The translated quote from Isaiah that you include has a lot of the same cbayer Aug 2012 #6
Handel uses several exclusively Old Testament texts--and this is one. nt Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #8
Handel used Isaiah's words. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #9
Interesting website. Linguistically, historically I'm interested in the course of bible translations pinto Aug 2012 #13
Background and purpose of the site. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #15
One big problem intaglio Aug 2012 #21
It's not really a problem. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #25
The site you so proudly promote intaglio Aug 2012 #27
Not so. In fact, the site refutes the theology of Christian Apologetics. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #29
Being Jeffersonian does not mean that you abandon apologetics intaglio Aug 2012 #30
Intaglio, I disagree. And here's why: SarahM32 Aug 2012 #32
I said he was an apologist. Many faiths have apologists intaglio Aug 2012 #35
No. Jefferson was not an Apologist. And furthermore ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #36
Well I can forgive you for misreading my sentence about Jefferson intaglio Aug 2012 #38
Well, since you put it that way ... I will say this: SarahM32 Sep 2012 #48
There are literary apologists intaglio Sep 2012 #49
Oh brother. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #50
You have stopped listening intaglio Sep 2012 #51
'Tis the other way around. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #54
You continue in your false description of apologetics intaglio Sep 2012 #55
Please. Let's be accurate. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #57
Again, apologetics is not just Christian, Isa is not the word you used intaglio Sep 2012 #59
Again, that's not relevant and avoids the issue. And ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #60
I repeat only to be ignored by you again intaglio Sep 2012 #61
Okay, for the last time ... SarahM32 Sep 2012 #62
You distort and ignore, you are trapped in a web of deceit intaglio Sep 2012 #63
The relationship between Old Testament materials Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #31
Well, I wouldn't say that. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #33
Again you are speaking of "The Book of Isaiah" as if it is a singular production intaglio Aug 2012 #34
No, I am not. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #37
A fiat that you are right and others are wrong intaglio Aug 2012 #39
I think both of you have made some serious points. Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #41
Thanks. And ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #43
Why it's more than mere hope. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #65
It has nothing to do with "profession" or money. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #66
There's an introduction to the 1611 King James Bible by its translators indicating Petrushka Aug 2012 #40
However, Strong in particular, Thats my opinion Aug 2012 #42
Yes. Thank you again. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #45
Petrushka, that's just more Apologetics, and ... SarahM32 Aug 2012 #44
Thanks for the link. Just discovered what the "messenger for the Spirit of truth" believes . . . Petrushka Aug 2012 #46
That story was published in February 2002. There's a more recent one online. SarahM32 Aug 2012 #47
FWIW: The writer of those articles, refers to himself in the thrid person, saying . . . Petrushka Sep 2012 #52
Ah, but you miss some very crucial facts. SarahM32 Sep 2012 #53
"...when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." ?? Petrushka Sep 2012 #56
So, in other words, you will not address the facts, and simply ignore the truth? SarahM32 Sep 2012 #58
Why it's important that the book of Isaiah is not about Jesus SarahM32 Sep 2012 #64
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