Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Religion
In reply to the discussion: My Take: The Mother Teresa you don’t know [View all]Rob H.
(5,856 posts)12. "...the guy who defended waterboarding (even after experiencing it!)..."
Wrong.
Emphases added.
Edited to add title and intro.
Believe Me, Its Torture
What more can be added to the debate over U.S. interrogation methods, and whether waterboarding is torture? Try firsthand experience. The author undergoes the controversial drowning technique, at the hands of men who once trained American soldiers to resistnot inflictit.
By Christopher Hitchens
...
This is because I had read that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, invariably referred to as the mastermind of the atrocities of September 11, 2001, had impressed his interrogators by holding out for upwards of two minutes before cracking. (By the way, this story is not confirmed. My North Carolina friends jeered at it. Hell, said one, from what I heard they only washed his damn face before he babbled.) But, hell, I thought in my turn, no Hitchens is going to do worse than that. Well, O.K., I admit I didnt outdo him. And so then I said, with slightly more bravado than was justified, that Id like to try it one more time. There was a paramedic present who checked my racing pulse and warned me about adrenaline rush. An interval was ordered, and then I felt the mask come down again. Steeling myself to remember what it had been like last time, and to learn from the previous panic attack, I fought down the first, and some of the second, wave of nausea and terror but soon found that I was an abject prisoner of my gag reflex. The interrogators would hardly have had time to ask me any questions, and I knew that I would quite readily have agreed to supply any answer. I still feel ashamed when I think about it. Also, in case its of interest, I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia. No doubt this will pass. As if detecting my misery and shame, one of my interrogators comfortingly said, Any time is a long time when youre breathing water. I could have hugged him for saying so, and just then I was hit with a ghastly sense of the sadomasochistic dimension that underlies the relationship between the torturer and the tortured. I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
...
Which returns us to my starting point, about the distinction between training for something and training to resist it. One used to be toldand surely with truththat the lethal fanatics of al-Qaeda were schooled to lie, and instructed to claim that they had been tortured and maltreated whether they had been tortured and maltreated or not. Did we notice what a frontier we had crossed when we admitted and even proclaimed that their stories might in fact be true? I had only a very slight encounter on that frontier, but I still wish that my experience were the only way in which the words waterboard and American could be mentioned in the same (gasping and sobbing) breath.
What more can be added to the debate over U.S. interrogation methods, and whether waterboarding is torture? Try firsthand experience. The author undergoes the controversial drowning technique, at the hands of men who once trained American soldiers to resistnot inflictit.
By Christopher Hitchens
...
This is because I had read that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, invariably referred to as the mastermind of the atrocities of September 11, 2001, had impressed his interrogators by holding out for upwards of two minutes before cracking. (By the way, this story is not confirmed. My North Carolina friends jeered at it. Hell, said one, from what I heard they only washed his damn face before he babbled.) But, hell, I thought in my turn, no Hitchens is going to do worse than that. Well, O.K., I admit I didnt outdo him. And so then I said, with slightly more bravado than was justified, that Id like to try it one more time. There was a paramedic present who checked my racing pulse and warned me about adrenaline rush. An interval was ordered, and then I felt the mask come down again. Steeling myself to remember what it had been like last time, and to learn from the previous panic attack, I fought down the first, and some of the second, wave of nausea and terror but soon found that I was an abject prisoner of my gag reflex. The interrogators would hardly have had time to ask me any questions, and I knew that I would quite readily have agreed to supply any answer. I still feel ashamed when I think about it. Also, in case its of interest, I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia. No doubt this will pass. As if detecting my misery and shame, one of my interrogators comfortingly said, Any time is a long time when youre breathing water. I could have hugged him for saying so, and just then I was hit with a ghastly sense of the sadomasochistic dimension that underlies the relationship between the torturer and the tortured. I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
...
Which returns us to my starting point, about the distinction between training for something and training to resist it. One used to be toldand surely with truththat the lethal fanatics of al-Qaeda were schooled to lie, and instructed to claim that they had been tortured and maltreated whether they had been tortured and maltreated or not. Did we notice what a frontier we had crossed when we admitted and even proclaimed that their stories might in fact be true? I had only a very slight encounter on that frontier, but I still wish that my experience were the only way in which the words waterboard and American could be mentioned in the same (gasping and sobbing) breath.
Emphases added.
Edited to add title and intro.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
37 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Are you surprised? Cherry-picking and quote mining is permissible in order to make a point.
cleanhippie
Sep 2012
#20
So you aren't going to admit that, best case scenario, that you were wrong?
Goblinmonger
Sep 2012
#29
Teresa is given a pass for a lot of things others are demonized..and even jailed for.
Vehl
Sep 2012
#6
I wondered about the degree of your first hand experience and very much appreciate your
cbayer
Sep 2012
#11
anyone who went to parochial school or attended catechism in the 60's knows the pain of a nuns ruler
unapatriciated
Sep 2012
#13