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Rob H.

(5,856 posts)
12. "...the guy who defended waterboarding (even after experiencing it!)..."
Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:33 AM
Sep 2012
Wrong.

Believe Me, It’s Torture

What more can be added to the debate over U.S. interrogation methods, and whether waterboarding is torture? Try firsthand experience. The author undergoes the controversial drowning technique, at the hands of men who once trained American soldiers to resist—not inflict—it.

By Christopher Hitchens

...

This is because I had read that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, invariably referred to as the “mastermind” of the atrocities of September 11, 2001, had impressed his interrogators by holding out for upwards of two minutes before cracking. (By the way, this story is not confirmed. My North Carolina friends jeered at it. “Hell,” said one, “from what I heard they only washed his damn face before he babbled.”) But, hell, I thought in my turn, no Hitchens is going to do worse than that. Well, O.K., I admit I didn’t outdo him. And so then I said, with slightly more bravado than was justified, that I’d like to try it one more time. There was a paramedic present who checked my racing pulse and warned me about adrenaline rush. An interval was ordered, and then I felt the mask come down again. Steeling myself to remember what it had been like last time, and to learn from the previous panic attack, I fought down the first, and some of the second, wave of nausea and terror but soon found that I was an abject prisoner of my gag reflex. The interrogators would hardly have had time to ask me any questions, and I knew that I would quite readily have agreed to supply any answer. I still feel ashamed when I think about it. Also, in case it’s of interest, I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia. No doubt this will pass. As if detecting my misery and shame, one of my interrogators comfortingly said, “Any time is a long time when you’re breathing water.” I could have hugged him for saying so, and just then I was hit with a ghastly sense of the sadomasochistic dimension that underlies the relationship between the torturer and the tortured. I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: “If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.

...

Which returns us to my starting point, about the distinction between training for something and training to resist it. One used to be told—and surely with truth—that the lethal fanatics of al-Qaeda were schooled to lie, and instructed to claim that they had been tortured and maltreated whether they had been tortured and maltreated or not. Did we notice what a frontier we had crossed when we admitted and even proclaimed that their stories might in fact be true? I had only a very slight encounter on that frontier, but I still wish that my experience were the only way in which the words “waterboard” and “American” could be mentioned in the same (gasping and sobbing) breath.


Emphases added.

Edited to add title and intro.

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Somehow I'm not surprised okasha Sep 2012 #1
This is not the first negative piece done on her Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #2
It's not a negative piece. okasha Sep 2012 #3
No, Hitchens got her exactly right. onager Sep 2012 #4
+1 But don't expect an answer with any substance skepticscott Sep 2012 #8
"he was a drunk, an ass and a bully at times" - OK! Nice role model. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #21
Who said he was a role model? skepticscott Sep 2012 #22
But he didn't say what okasha claimed him to say. Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #24
I seriously doubt that I am attacking fellow atheists. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #27
Not surprised at all. cbayer Sep 2012 #5
"...the guy who defended waterboarding (even after experiencing it!)..." Rob H. Sep 2012 #12
Ah, the harsh sunlight of more facts skepticscott Sep 2012 #14
From The Guardian okasha Sep 2012 #17
The Guardian quote is incomplete and out of context Rob H. Sep 2012 #19
Are you surprised? Cherry-picking and quote mining is permissible in order to make a point. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #20
What, you expected intellectual honesty skepticscott Sep 2012 #23
Busted and humiliated again! trotsky Sep 2012 #26
Dear trots. okasha Sep 2012 #28
So you aren't going to admit that, best case scenario, that you were wrong? Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #29
Uhm, Goblinmonger, I wasn't lying. okasha Sep 2012 #30
From your post (#1 on this thread): Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #31
This particular quote, no. okasha Sep 2012 #32
Then you were just wrong. trotsky Sep 2012 #34
Because I'm right. okasha Sep 2012 #36
You sure are, kash. trotsky Sep 2012 #37
Dear kash, trotsky Sep 2012 #33
Glad to know you still have one. okasha Sep 2012 #35
Teresa is given a pass for a lot of things others are demonized..and even jailed for. Vehl Sep 2012 #6
How much of this do you think she was aware of? Do you think she was complicit? cbayer Sep 2012 #7
You just can't help but be an apologist skepticscott Sep 2012 #9
"Suffering" was an important... rexcat Sep 2012 #15
I'm sure she was very aware. unapatriciated Sep 2012 #10
I wondered about the degree of your first hand experience and very much appreciate your cbayer Sep 2012 #11
anyone who went to parochial school or attended catechism in the 60's knows the pain of a nuns ruler unapatriciated Sep 2012 #13
I think the accusations being leveled here go a step beyond rulers on your knuckles. cbayer Sep 2012 #16
Untrue. okasha Sep 2012 #18
She must have been fully aware, as she had an iron grip on her charity's governance Vehl Sep 2012 #25
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