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Religion
In reply to the discussion: I wish you wouldn't force your beliefs on me! [View all]skepticscott
(13,029 posts)42. Nice try...well, actually not so much
Are you trying to tell me you cannot discern the difference between a needless lawsuit removing a cross honoring Americans that was once on private property and is now on public lands and has been around for say 80 years, and a genuine concern about an endorsement of religion by the state.
Reasonable people see the difference. Ideologues, whether they be religious whack jobs like Fred Phelps or strident Atheist don't.
Reasonable and intelligent people KNOW that the religious right will use any wedge they can to increase the presence of religious symbols on public property, and to lie about it proving that this is a Xstian nation. Reasonable and intelligent people, and religious people who aren't threatened by every lawsuit removing blatantly religious symbols from public property know that it doesn't harm them one bit if those symbols are not there. This "Christian heritage" you talk about sounds suspiciously like the "southern heritage" of neo-Confederate racists.
Also on what planet is the US government promoting Christian religion at every opportunity? That you actually believe this is concerning.
Where did I say that the US government was "promoting Christian religion at every opportunity"? Nowhere. Just another of your lies. I said that most Christians (who you ridiculously claimed value the separation of church and state, when they don't even understand it) have no problem with every instance when the government does promote their religion (and the instances are numerous and ongoing). Go back and work on your reading comprehension.
According to you the long history of Christian thought and symbols in the USA is of no consequence and all should adopt a purist view that any and all references, themes, memes, should be thoroughly purged from the public square.
More lies. I never said that "the long history of Christian thought and symbols in the USA is of no consequence", or anything remotely resembling it. The framers didn't think that either, but they STILL thought that government promotion and endorsement of religion was a bad idea, now didn't they? And as far as the "public square" outside of government promotion and support of religion, bring it on. You and your ilk are always tossing out the "public square" rant, but you want it all one-sided. You want your beliefs trumpeted from the highest mountain in public, but you're abject cowards when it comes to the debate, criticism and critical examination of ALL ideas that is an integral part of that same PUBLIC square. When that same public square exposes the corruption and foolishness of religion and religious beliefs, you cry bigotry and prejudice, and demand a free pass for your "faith". Well, here's a news flash...the public square is not a friendly place and respect is not granted by default...it has to be earned.
Reasonable people see the difference. Ideologues, whether they be religious whack jobs like Fred Phelps or strident Atheist don't.
Reasonable and intelligent people KNOW that the religious right will use any wedge they can to increase the presence of religious symbols on public property, and to lie about it proving that this is a Xstian nation. Reasonable and intelligent people, and religious people who aren't threatened by every lawsuit removing blatantly religious symbols from public property know that it doesn't harm them one bit if those symbols are not there. This "Christian heritage" you talk about sounds suspiciously like the "southern heritage" of neo-Confederate racists.
Also on what planet is the US government promoting Christian religion at every opportunity? That you actually believe this is concerning.
Where did I say that the US government was "promoting Christian religion at every opportunity"? Nowhere. Just another of your lies. I said that most Christians (who you ridiculously claimed value the separation of church and state, when they don't even understand it) have no problem with every instance when the government does promote their religion (and the instances are numerous and ongoing). Go back and work on your reading comprehension.
According to you the long history of Christian thought and symbols in the USA is of no consequence and all should adopt a purist view that any and all references, themes, memes, should be thoroughly purged from the public square.
More lies. I never said that "the long history of Christian thought and symbols in the USA is of no consequence", or anything remotely resembling it. The framers didn't think that either, but they STILL thought that government promotion and endorsement of religion was a bad idea, now didn't they? And as far as the "public square" outside of government promotion and support of religion, bring it on. You and your ilk are always tossing out the "public square" rant, but you want it all one-sided. You want your beliefs trumpeted from the highest mountain in public, but you're abject cowards when it comes to the debate, criticism and critical examination of ALL ideas that is an integral part of that same PUBLIC square. When that same public square exposes the corruption and foolishness of religion and religious beliefs, you cry bigotry and prejudice, and demand a free pass for your "faith". Well, here's a news flash...the public square is not a friendly place and respect is not granted by default...it has to be earned.
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Good point. But it is the system which has been imposed on people, not the belief.
Starboard Tack
Sep 2012
#7
Do you consider those atheists, like myself, who embrace tolerant, liberal progressives of all faith
cleanhippie
Oct 2012
#102
When he says "some atheists", he is talking about you. He probably doesn't realize it yet...
cleanhippie
Oct 2012
#101
Science, the world, and reality itself have been forcing their beliefs on people for, like, ever
mindwalker_i
Sep 2012
#8
It appears that the term "belief" is broader than you would like to admit. If
humblebum
Sep 2012
#35
Uh oh, rexcat, humblebum got you. When he says "you have been proven wrong", it's over!
cleanhippie
Oct 2012
#55
Yes, of course we know that "religious belief" is the only kind of belief. Makes
humblebum
Oct 2012
#63
No, there can also be "belief in Santa, Unicorns, the Tooth Fairy and Lipstick Lesbians"
Oregonian
Oct 2012
#69
And the point being made is "Christians do not believe in separation of Church and State"
Fortinbras Armstrong
Oct 2012
#92
Or hateful, intolerant atheists. The violins are getting louder all the time. nt
humblebum
Sep 2012
#44
Yes we all agree calling strident atheists ideologues is hateful intolerance. Well maybe not all.
LARED
Sep 2012
#45
"Actually the framers thought the federal government establishing a religion was a very bad idea"
Oregonian
Oct 2012
#61
Where did I say that Jefferson was not a Founding Father? Answer: I never did.
humblebum
Oct 2012
#82
Well one might be tempted to think you're speaking about the Constitution when you are
humblebum
Oct 2012
#85
"Then one of your weaknesses is being a liar" and "Your position is absurd." - Nailed it!
cleanhippie
Oct 2012
#94