Religion

bongbong

(5,436 posts)

47. ????????????????????????

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:52 PM

Oct 2012

> philosophy seeks to understand truth that cannot be shown by chemistry or other physical science...

OK, so let's just call the truths revealed by chemistry and other hard sciences "truth*". Will that make you happy?

> The part you don't understand is that there ARE things that cannot be proven by physical reality.

Sounds like you want to get into some kind of epistemological argument about "what is proof?" Since there are libraries filled with books discussing that topic, let's skip it. And, not to mention, you're moving the goalposts from chemistry to, like, everything.

> compleatly

I don't know if a guy who misspells completely is up to discussing Philosophy. Note that simple spelling errors like that don't disqualify you from discussing politics, but Philosophy ain't politics.

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Highlight:

The Black Cat Analogy [View all] Silent3 Oct 2012 OP

heh... progressoid Oct 2012 #1

+1 n/t Silent3 Oct 2012 #2

Hip Hip Hooray for Scientific Materialists ! Berlum Oct 2012 #3

He ironically typed on his computer connected to millions of other computers in a great web". Fumesucker Oct 2012 #4

+1000 n/t trotsky Oct 2012 #49

A retort with all of the wit and humor of a Tea Party rally. Silent3 Oct 2012 #5

The Middle Ages, probably. mr blur Oct 2012 #8

+1 n/t whathehell Oct 2012 #51

The Berlin Wall AlbertCat Oct 2012 #96

I'd say "religion" instead of "theology." Brickbat Oct 2012 #6

Religion is telling others there is a black cat and a dark room for money. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #10

As a "scientific materialist" edhopper Oct 2012 #7

I consider this more a fun analogy that a highly accurate one. Silent3 Oct 2012 #30

And dogma is like being in a black room zeemike Oct 2012 #9

And religion edhopper Oct 2012 #13

+1 n/t Silent3 Oct 2012 #14

And science like the person that did not have electricity zeemike Oct 2012 #16

The "light" of science, however, produces fairly consistent results... Silent3 Oct 2012 #21

Religion does not have a light. zeemike Oct 2012 #24

Science involves both directed and non-directed searches Silent3 Oct 2012 #27

No I meant what I said...religion does not have a light and does not want one. zeemike Oct 2012 #29

I don't buy the idea that there's much distinction between... Silent3 Oct 2012 #32

Perhaps just as evidence free as string theory. zeemike Oct 2012 #37

String theorists know, however... Silent3 Oct 2012 #40

Well you confuse religion with spiritual beliefs. zeemike Oct 2012 #43

Definitions bongbong Oct 2012 #48

Yup tama Oct 2012 #102

Chemistry bongbong Oct 2012 #38

And perhaps you get yours from the same chemistry. zeemike Oct 2012 #41

???? bongbong Oct 2012 #42

I did not say that. zeemike Oct 2012 #45

???????????????????????? bongbong Oct 2012 #47

As usual with this kind of discussion, you will run us in circles until you find something. zeemike Oct 2012 #53

Hi yo silver bongbong Oct 2012 #56

Yep here we go... zeemike Oct 2012 #68

This has to be one of the greatest conversations I have ever read on DU. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #75

and sense they believe there can be no black cat AlbertCat Oct 2012 #94

Because what they say does not match what they do. zeemike Oct 2012 #101

Because what they say does not match what they do. AlbertCat Oct 2012 #105

Wrong, I do like what science tells me zeemike Oct 2012 #108

And thats the beauty of science. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #109

You mean credible evidence. zeemike Oct 2012 #112

Allow me to clarify...FACTUAL evidence. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #115

"But you can�t have the opinion that evolution isn�t real" zeemike Oct 2012 #116

You can have your own opinions but not your own facts. Evolution is factual. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #118

Well good then, neither of us have to waste our time. zeemike Oct 2012 #119

I would give any point you made consideration, but since you have demonstrated a below average cleanhippie Oct 2012 #120

That is total fucking bullshit zeemike Oct 2012 #121

I only know what you posted. And I never called you stupid. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #122

The understanding of an 8 year old?....well that is not stupid i guess. zeemike Oct 2012 #123

If one's argument is rediculous, then one should expect ridicule. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #124

Well I don't know because I have never been to a creationist web site. zeemike Oct 2012 #125

Then go to one or fifty and read what they have to say. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #126

Now why would I want to do that? zeemike Oct 2012 #127

Uhm, to see what is is I am talking about? cleanhippie Oct 2012 #128

How about you reevaluate your with us or against us notions. zeemike Oct 2012 #129

What you DID present is a regurgitation of a typical creationist argument. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #131

consider it done. zeemike Oct 2012 #132

There is such thing as *good* authority... Silent3 Oct 2012 #130

Science has produced constant results? Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #65

I said consistent, not constant. Silent3 Oct 2012 #66

One has to wonder why skepticscott Oct 2012 #72

Flashlights do use electricity, you know. Your analogy is quite incoherent. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #73

You mean there is such a thing as a coherent analogy? zeemike Oct 2012 #86

If we're using yours as the exams, them no. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #87

Well yes you told me zeemike Oct 2012 #88

Yet in this case, there is a clear definition, and yours comes up well short of the mark. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #89

This is about rhetoric. zeemike Oct 2012 #92

No, this is about coherence. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #93

Let me know when you get those lights turned on, because it's still very black in this room. cbayer Oct 2012 #44

To which "dogma" do you refer? Silent3 Oct 2012 #18

And it don't mean only religion ether. zeemike Oct 2012 #25

Dogma, however, is insisted upon without evidence Silent3 Oct 2012 #28

Even religion can produce evidence.to support dogma. zeemike Oct 2012 #31

You aren't making sense Silent3 Oct 2012 #36

Well perhaps because dogma does not make sense zeemike Oct 2012 #39

the evidence for spiritual existence .... AlbertCat Oct 2012 #95

So saying it in Latin makes it sound more convincing. zeemike Oct 2012 #100

logic of science that tells us that the Pharaohs ruled Egypt for thousands AlbertCat Oct 2012 #106

What physical evidence is there for Plato, or Socrates? zeemike Oct 2012 #107

You're obviously joking AlbertCat Oct 2012 #114

And you have no response to any point I made. zeemike Oct 2012 #117

I think he is fucking with you. No one can be that obtuse. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #110

you are simply conducting an exercise in futility. AlbertCat Oct 2012 #113

things they can't possibly know AlbertCat Oct 2012 #97

Oh the examples are legion. zeemike Oct 2012 #99

You don't know what a theory is AlbertCat Oct 2012 #104

You have not told me anything I did not already know. zeemike Oct 2012 #111

I don't think you are using your metaphors correctly. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #19

I did not know there is a correct way to use metaphors. zeemike Oct 2012 #26

Well, for starters, they need to be coherent and related to what is being compared. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #33

I stuck with the black cat analogy didn't I ? zeemike Oct 2012 #34

It was your additions to the Black Cat analogy that is lacking coherence. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #35

Scientific PROOF: when you enter the religion forum and cast Flame Bait Berlum Oct 2012 #11

Fuming & weeping & whining? Silent3 Oct 2012 #15

THANK YOU ! whathehell Oct 2012 #55

Your welcome whatthehell Berlum Oct 2012 #58

It certainly needs to be said whathehell Oct 2012 #84

The Bilind Men and the Elephant rug Oct 2012 #12

I've seen that old tale rolled out before... Silent3 Oct 2012 #17

I don't think it illustrates everyone has a piece of truth. rug Oct 2012 #20

It could be that the purpose of the entire universe... Silent3 Oct 2012 #22

Lol, there seems to be evidence to support that position. rug Oct 2012 #23

Yes, some who see the world one way are vastly superior to those who see if differently. cbayer Oct 2012 #46

You mean like those who call others "dumbasses" when they merely see the world differently? trotsky Oct 2012 #50

If they do more than merely entertain the possibility of the black cat in such a situation... Silent3 Oct 2012 #52

A delusion is a firmly held false belief. cbayer Oct 2012 #54

Except Columbus didn't find what he was looking for. trotsky Oct 2012 #57

One can't be said to have avoided delusion... Silent3 Oct 2012 #60

Another requirement for delusion is that it is a belief generally held by no one cbayer Oct 2012 #61

I can find no definition of delusion(al) that says what you are claiming. trotsky Oct 2012 #62

It's even easier to label them as dumbasses, isn't it? skepticscott Oct 2012 #63

Good catch. trotsky Oct 2012 #64

Delusions aren't, at least necessarily, "psychiatric conditions" Silent3 Oct 2012 #67

So when you use the word, you have some unique definition not shared by others? cbayer Oct 2012 #74

I think that is the question you should be asking YOURSELF! cleanhippie Oct 2012 #79

I don't know about you, but I checked a dictionary. Silent3 Oct 2012 #80

Which one? OED? cbayer Oct 2012 #81

Note "typically", not "always" Silent3 Oct 2012 #82

Go for it, but I think it weakens your argument to do so. cbayer Oct 2012 #83

It makes them delusional if the belief is wrong. trotsky Oct 2012 #85

Wow, a triple-lindy of rationalization! cleanhippie Oct 2012 #78

Wow, that is one AMAZING feat of rationalization! cleanhippie Oct 2012 #76

And Zen Warpy Oct 2012 #59

that is insightful in so many ways. zeemike Oct 2012 #69

Chickens and rabbits tama Oct 2012 #103

love this Hamlette Oct 2012 #70

If you encounter this problem in real life, make a noise like a can opener. n/t dimbear Oct 2012 #71

lol but I'm taking the flashlight! Hamlette Oct 2012 #90

Science also invented the flashlight lalalu Oct 2012 #77

Intuition is like a black cat looking for you and after finding you, sits on your lap and purrs. meti57b Oct 2012 #91

And English is like .... Nihil Oct 2012 #98