Religion

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)

31. Beliefs are not exempt from mockery

Reply to Humanist_Activist (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2012, 01:11 PM

Jan 2012

Religious beliefs are not innate, immutable characteristics of an individual, but a set of beliefs about the workings of the world and therefore not immune from criticism. No set of beliefs should ever be immune from scrutiny -- that's how we advance as a society by discarding false beliefs. Well, at least in theory.

For example, I understand that Mormons believe that American Indians were the lost 13th tribe of Israel. Archaeological and historical evidence, and more recently, DNA evidence have conclusively shown this to be false. Yet, as far as I know, this is still a Mormon belief.

Why should I respect this notion, proven to be utterly false, merely because it's religiously held? It deserves mocking, and doing so is not bigotry.

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Irreverence isn't bigotry, because ideas and beliefs are not people. [View all] Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 OP

people take criticisms of their religion personally, which is why... Odin2005 Jan 2012 #1

I know, and it mystifies me... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #2

This used to stump me as well. deacon_sephiroth Jan 2012 #23

They may not deserve Dorian Gray Jan 2012 #3

I disagree. If an idea is unable to stand up to scrutiny but is still advocated, then disrespect cleanhippie Jan 2012 #5

If that is your idea and you advocate that idea, then consider your wish granted. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #6

Passive-aggressive bullshit. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #9

+ another 1 nt mr blur Jan 2012 #17

+ 1 nt mr blur Jan 2012 #15

Yes Dorian Gray Jan 2012 #28

Yes cleanhippie Jan 2012 #30

My point is that Dorian Gray Jan 2012 #33

Great, thanks for your input. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #34

You are very welcome. NT Dorian Gray Jan 2012 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Jan 2012 #94

I believe the point is what it always is: Iggo Jan 2012 #95

You have no right to not be offended. Right? humblebum Jan 2012 #29

There is a difference between criticism and libeling an entire group. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #96

Yes, I am very aware that not all atheists are communists. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #98

"Ideas and beliefs only merit respect if they can stand up under scrutiny" - Exactly! cleanhippie Jan 2012 #4

Human beings deserve respect for their actions, not their ideas. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #7

Where are these mythical "militant" atheists? Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #19

Show me how you act--whether you have compassion, a thirst for justice and peace---- Thats my opinion Jan 2012 #8

If someone shows irreverence toward someone's religion in the workplace, humblebum Jan 2012 #10

So you don't go around your workplace Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #11

Nor around here either. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #12

Uh huh. n/t Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #14

uh huh. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #16

And I have never heard of anhyone who does. Thats my opinion Jan 2012 #32

Honestly Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #36

Do you not remember our PM conversationon this very topic? laconicsax Jan 2012 #54

I don't think so, I'm lucky, at my work, I can show irreverence quite openly... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #21

I agree that usually within a group of people it's very common to kid around humblebum Jan 2012 #27

I have seen quite a bit of discussion about bigotry towards believers here recently cbayer Jan 2012 #13

I read the article and I don't see the bigotry... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #18

I read it and did. cbayer Jan 2012 #20

If I were to say that the Catholic Church is a homophobic, misogynistic organization... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #22

I completely agree with your distinction here. cbayer Jan 2012 #24

So you take quotes out of context to label him a bigot? How dishonest is that? Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #25

Again, I see those both as examples of bigotry. You don't. cbayer Jan 2012 #26

Beliefs are not exempt from mockery Ron Obvious Jan 2012 #31

Irreverence mocks people, because people are attached to their beliefs. It can be bigotry. kwassa Jan 2012 #37

The fact that they are attached to their beliefs is their problem... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #38

The mockers can be just as attached to their own bigoted beliefs. kwassa Jan 2012 #52

I consider atheism to be extremely narrow-minded, narrowly focused, and generally humblebum Jan 2012 #39

I'd love to see examples of this danger, so I can demolish them with evidence... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #40

The "positivist" method or "logical positivist" or 'logical empirical method", each of which humblebum Jan 2012 #41

One of your better posts, humblebum, tama Jan 2012 #42

You really are stuck on the whole "atheism equals communism" thing, aren't you? Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #43

Seriously, they don't. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #44

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #45

If it is an act, I applaud the dedication to the trade. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #46

You have failed to "demolish" anything with evidence. And, nowhere did I state humblebum Jan 2012 #47

Something about this.... lazarus Jan 2012 #48

Tell me. Do you THINK you are an atheist? NT humblebum Jan 2012 #49

let's try this another way lazarus Jan 2012 #50

Let me have a guess tama Jan 2012 #51

I think you pretty much summed it up. Atheism, in general, is neutral, neither good nor bad. humblebum Jan 2012 #55

This just in! The Onion is a hate group! laconicsax Jan 2012 #56

I would say generally tama Jan 2012 #57

If you know, then you think, and yes, many atheists do humblebum Jan 2012 #53

atheism isn't a thinking process lazarus Jan 2012 #58

It is when it becomes the way you interpret the world around you. humblebum Jan 2012 #59

no matter much you insist it means what you say it means lazarus Jan 2012 #60

Lazarus, where you see contradiction, he sees confirmation. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #61

I've been reading this group a lot longer than i've been posting in it lazarus Jan 2012 #62

I think it's fairly obvious - mr blur Jan 2012 #63

And, don't you forget it either. Particularly obvious here. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #65

Did you mean to say oblivious? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #66

Never have denied that "Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods." That does not humblebum Jan 2012 #64

You are right about that, it is different in that atheist thought is reality-based. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #67

really? lazarus Jan 2012 #68

Here Lazarus, you can borrow mine. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #69

LOL lazarus Jan 2012 #70

Some magnificent spin there. But you will notice that I humblebum Jan 2012 #72

actually lazarus Jan 2012 #74

You are confusing yourself even more. Every one of my statements there reflects humblebum Jan 2012 #75

heh lazarus Jan 2012 #76

What a joke! humblebum Jan 2012 #77

heh lazarus Jan 2012 #78

You are doing nothing but arguing in circles, about a subject humblebum Jan 2012 #79

athiestic thought deacon_sephiroth Jan 2012 #80

By golly, you are on the ball! humblebum Jan 2012 #81

sarcasm lazarus Jan 2012 #82

"If we're not born atheist, how is it that some of us are born believing ... humblebum Jan 2012 #83

that doesn't make sense lazarus Jan 2012 #84

How does a baby "know" how to breath, or to suck on a nipple, or to cry? humblebum Jan 2012 #85

two statements, zero truth deacon_sephiroth Jan 2012 #86

I am not the one that said all atheists think alike. Never humblebum Jan 2012 #87

Also, where did I say that anyone was born with an active belief in anything? I only humblebum Jan 2012 #88

BTW. Just curious as to where you got this beauty? humblebum Jan 2012 #89

Instead of a Catholic Pope tama Jan 2012 #73

As a believer, irreverence doesn't bother me at all. ButterflyBlood Jan 2012 #71

Agreed. Deep13 Jan 2012 #90

What about tama Jan 2012 #91

I do not see how those ideas are any different. Deep13 Jan 2012 #92

I often wonder tama Jan 2012 #93

They imply a lack of understanding. Deep13 Jan 2012 #97