Religion

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)

87. Funny, because I just did rather easily.

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:16 PM

Dec 2012

"OTOH, I am of the opinion that no one knows whether there is a god or gods of not."

You're welcome to that opinion. I share it.

That has absolutely squat to do with the pure irrationality of declaring that the mere *fact of not knowing* is a philosophical position denoted by the word "agnostic".

However, you can believe. You can believe there is a god or believe that there is no god.

Congratulations, another accurate but irrelevant observation.

Yes, you can adopt the position you believe God exists. Welcome to theism.

Or you can NOT ADOPT the position you believe God exists. WELCOME TO ATHEISM.

Yes, you can adopt the position *you believe* God doesn't exist. Welcome to A SUBSET of atheism.

And none of that has a damn thing to do with being agnostic, which is a completely different question that has zero, zip, zilch, NADA to do with whether you do or do not believe God exists.

"To not take either position is completely valid, imo.

Of course it's valid. It's atheism.

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�Lack of belief� blurs the line between atheist and agnostic [View all] rug Dec 2012 OP

I usually like this guy's writings and I really like some of Huxley's ideas on this, but cbayer Dec 2012 #1

I call myself agnostic dorkzilla Dec 2012 #2

Amen to everything you said wryter2000 Dec 2012 #28

Where in the world have you been!!?? cbayer Dec 2012 #30

Hi, Miss you! wryter2000 Dec 2012 #35

I agree completely with the both of you, except ToxMarz Dec 2012 #102

It means "*can't* know" gcomeau Dec 2012 #77

Disagree. Modifying a word with the letter a- generally means without. cbayer Dec 2012 #83

Sigh... gcomeau Dec 2012 #84

You can't compare molecular cell biology or swahili to knowing about god. cbayer Dec 2012 #85

Funny, because I just did rather easily. gcomeau Dec 2012 #87

You may need to find an example of something which no one actually knows cbayer Dec 2012 #88

Fine gcomeau Dec 2012 #89

But there is not a very large proportion of the human population that does believe cbayer Dec 2012 #91

What the hell... gcomeau Dec 2012 #92

It's like trying to nail down jell-o, isn't it. cleanhippie Dec 2012 #86

I tire of these semantic arguments. longship Dec 2012 #3

the problem comes in DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #4

+1 - thanks so much for putting this so well. cbayer Dec 2012 #32

Not to put too fine a point on it... gcomeau Dec 2012 #76

^^^THIS^^^ beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #78

Still trying to redefine atheism to suit your agenda. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #5

Pray, what is James Kirk Wall's agenda? rug Dec 2012 #6

If he ever posts in this forum I'll ask him. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #7

He's the one quoting Huxley. rug Dec 2012 #8

It's your op. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #9

It's your insinuation. rug Dec 2012 #10

And again you refuse to discuss your own op. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #11

And again you refuse to discuss your own insinuation. rug Dec 2012 #12

Your refusal to post your own opinions about the subjects in your ops speaks volumes. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #13

Perhaps you're hearing things. rug Dec 2012 #14

This "topic" deserves nothing more. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #15

Merry Christmas! rug Dec 2012 #16

What muddying? Gnosticism is a statement on knowledge, Theism a statement on belief... Humanist_Activist Dec 2012 #17

It makes their job easier when they can define atheism as an active disbelief. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #18

Considering it is you that rejects a specificbelief, you should say what you're rejecting. rug Dec 2012 #19

God is a bagel? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #20

If you say so. rug Dec 2012 #21

No, YOU are the one who is telling me what I reject. Your words: beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #23

I must have misunderstood. I take it then you do accept a belief in a god. rug Dec 2012 #24

I'll believe in any god that proves its existence. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #26

And until then, you must reject the belief. rug Dec 2012 #31

Wrong. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #33

I see you accept it before you reject it. rug Dec 2012 #38

It's just too complicated for you. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #39

No. I find mental evasions to be much more complicated. rug Dec 2012 #40

It must suck to realize that so many people think your religious beliefs are completely irrational. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #41

It must suck to resort to argumentum ad populum. rug Dec 2012 #42

Even worse, you can't point at us and scream "SEE! They believe in stupid shit too!" beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #43

I'll leave the pointing and screaming to you. rug Dec 2012 #44

That's not screaming, it's uncontrollable laughter. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #45

I'm sure it is. rug Dec 2012 #46

Ah, now there's the real rug. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #47

Always. rug Dec 2012 #48

I will never stalk someone looking for personal info to use in a debate. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #49

Who has? rug Dec 2012 #50

It is not *rejecting* a belief. It's not adopting the belief. There's a difference. gcomeau Dec 2012 #57

What's the difference between not adopting a belief and rejecting a belief? rug Dec 2012 #58

"I reject all sorts of things without the slightest confusion" beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #60

That's what I said. Shall I repeat it? rug Dec 2012 #61

I have no conception of a god or gods. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #62

Then what are you going on about? rug Dec 2012 #63

Intolerant people who constantly try to redefine atheism. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #64

You're aggravated by redefining a notion which does not accept a notion that you have no concept of? rug Dec 2012 #65

I resent the fuck out of being told what I believe or don't. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #66

Your resentment aside, you post something, you will be questioned. rug Dec 2012 #67

I don't tell you what you believe, I don't argue with you about your beliefs. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #68

I have never properly returned your graciousness. rug Dec 2012 #69

Calling your religious beliefs irrational is not the same thing as redefining them. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #70

Oh no, that's much better. rug Dec 2012 #71

You never told me what I believe? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #72

Active vs. Passive gcomeau Dec 2012 #74

Actually, no. rug Dec 2012 #80

Actually, yes. gcomeau Dec 2012 #81

No, I did notice them but I ignored them. rug Dec 2012 #90

At least you admit it. gcomeau Dec 2012 #93

So, once confronted with a notion you don't accept, you then reject it. rug Dec 2012 #94

Instead of argue that point with you yet again... gcomeau Dec 2012 #95

Rejection is not necessarily a bad thing. rug Dec 2012 #96

Yes, but not the point. -eom. gcomeau Dec 2012 #97

The point is, when one encounters a belief and does not adopt it, that is a rejection of the belief. rug Dec 2012 #98

Sigh... gcomeau Dec 2012 #104

Sigh . . . . rug Dec 2012 #105

Congratulations. gcomeau Dec 2012 #107

Oh, it's there. rug Dec 2012 #108

No. It's not. gcomeau Dec 2012 #109

Yes it is. rug Dec 2012 #110

Speaking of muddying, post 19 is a perfect example. beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #22

Hey, I'm over here. rug Dec 2012 #25

Underneath that black velvet painting of a Jesus Bagel? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #27

No, across the room thumbing through Huxley. rug Dec 2012 #29

You've never heard of a Jesus Bagel, have you? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #34

Sure, but I see a lot of stupid things on reddit. rug Dec 2012 #37

Good grief.. gcomeau Dec 2012 #75

Thanks for the post. Interesting article. For me, I think "agnostic" fits best, as far as labels go. pinto Dec 2012 #36

I don't understand randomtagger Dec 2012 #51

Spiritual but not religious does not necessarily rule out theism. cbayer Dec 2012 #52

To clarify randomtagger Dec 2012 #53

Perhaps different names for similar things. cbayer Dec 2012 #54

I think most of us believe in the same thing. I'm an atheist and Democratopia Dec 2012 #55

I know many atheists but none of them is as obsessed with atheism as you are. mr blur Dec 2012 #56

I'll gladly measure my obsession, as you term it, with atheism against yours with religion. rug Dec 2012 #59

I like this quote from Huxley: silverweb Dec 2012 #73

I call my self a person who... murray hill farm Dec 2012 #79

I like this answer very much. Thanks. cbayer Dec 2012 #82

You like letting others define you? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #99

I like how the member defined themselves. cbayer Dec 2012 #100

"It's only when they attack me based on their erroneous definitions that I care" beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #101

Like? murray hill farm Dec 2012 #103

Like the boring example of how the Moral Majority defines GLBT people based on their own issues? beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #106