Religion

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)

19. No, there are limits

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:58 PM

Jan 2013

Science, OTOH, offers limitless possibilities to improve our planet and our lives

8 billion people cannot live like you. In fact, you may only live the way you do because of exploiting the masses of people and taking their resources to support our energy-intensive, complex infrastructure.

We have real, hard limits. We are headed right for them, in a very bad way. Climate change will only exacerbate the problem, which is a result of over production to support a fraction of the population's standard of living.

And no offense, but all around me I see a bunch of "spiritually"-wired humans who get jacked into objective reality by reading science books, watching star trek and having shiny LCD screens, which makes them put their faithy-wired brain functionality in worshipping technology and believing it will deliver infinite greatness (despite all contradictory evidence). So many of the technophiles are simply creating their own new, trendy religion that gives them hope but is rests on faulty, unscientific reasoning. Its....disheartening.

There are real physical limits dictated by science (resource and energy limits). There is also a limited amount of life that this globe can support, which seems to be inversely proportional to how much production we engage in. Science will not always save you and hasn't always saved us in the past. Believing such is an irrational faith-based belief.

Religion isn't dead. Its just sporting new duds.

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Highlight:

Too Simple to Be Wrong: Atheism's Bronze-Age Goat Herder Conceit [View all] cbayer Jan 2013 OP

Goat herders are superb at tending flocks of goats Warpy Jan 2013 #1

Lol, good point. What do you think about his take on Sir William Herschel? cbayer Jan 2013 #3

Herschel is a "missing link" trotsky Jan 2013 #6

A very good, perhaps approaching great, composer dmallind Jan 2013 #12

Did not know that about him and will check it out. cbayer Jan 2013 #17

Well, he is, pretty much Warpy Jan 2013 #31

Though they may be better than average with astronomy NoOneMan Jan 2013 #9

Well, not really, since they generally don't differentiate between near stars Warpy Jan 2013 #14

They will laugh at our rudimentary way of seeing things in 2,000 years, too... cbayer Jan 2013 #25

The best response to this hit piece is in the comments at HuffPo. trotsky Jan 2013 #2

+1000 That's the problem in a nutshell. Speck Tater Jan 2013 #4

They've both worked hand in hand at promoting this notion of progress NoOneMan Jan 2013 #7

"progress is not relevant to me" trotsky Jan 2013 #8

Yep NoOneMan Jan 2013 #10

Does it also break your heart to know that just a couple of generations ago... trotsky Jan 2013 #11

They still don't in most of the world NoOneMan Jan 2013 #13

And science may be able to solve those problems, religion never will. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #15

No, there are limits NoOneMan Jan 2013 #19

Hey brother, I am agreeing with you. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #24

Im just not sure science is necessary for that possibility NoOneMan Jan 2013 #26

As an atheist, I must say were it not for religion to control the people, I doubt we would be here Democratopia Jan 2013 #58

Youre right. We might be exploring other worlds by now. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #71

Of course. trotsky Jan 2013 #16

None of us have wonderful odds in our favor with 400 PPM CO2 concentrations NoOneMan Jan 2013 #22

You must be a riot at parties. n/t trotsky Jan 2013 #34

The irony is that you wouldn't even be aware skepticscott Jan 2013 #38

Would you listen to my "feelings"? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #39

What you forecast is chilling and seems inevitable, were it not for the ingenuity and ever-expanding Democratopia Jan 2013 #59

We've had a good idea this was happening for 4 decades NoOneMan Jan 2013 #67

We will have to build machines that will extract the C02 from the atmosphere. Democratopia Jan 2013 #68

Will they run on oil? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #69

WE don't soil our hands with Slavery formercia Jan 2013 #77

What an obnoxious post. rug Jan 2013 #18

No, it isn't "an accurate description of the authors of the Old Testament." okasha Jan 2013 #42

Whatever. My point is, they were not rocket scientists. nt Speck Tater Jan 2013 #46

By which you mean okasha Jan 2013 #62

That they lacked knowledge of how the world works. They were ignorant. Speck Tater Jan 2013 #65

They knew a great deal more about those things okasha Jan 2013 #81

OK. Whatever you say. Speck Tater Jan 2013 #85

I didn't say they were wiser than "we" are. okasha Jan 2013 #88

Actually, what you said was: trotsky Jan 2013 #89

Sure, those civilizations you mentioned knew some engineering Speck Tater Jan 2013 #90

True,some of these technologies were developed okasha Jan 2013 #91

Well, I guess they were intellectual giants Speck Tater Jan 2013 #92

I suppose you have some reason for continuing to argue okasha Jan 2013 #94

Are you implying that the religion of those civilizations gave them that knowledge? cleanhippie Jan 2013 #93

No. See post 94, above. okasha Jan 2013 #95

I have reread this subthread and am even more confused. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #96

My point was a very simple one. okasha Jan 2013 #97

Ahh, I see. My mistake. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #98

Such as? cleanhippie Jan 2013 #87

+1 Scuba Jan 2013 #5

I think this deserves an Excellent Post(r) Award from cbayer skepticscott Jan 2013 #27

Your decision to replace discussion with this personal vendetta type thing is toxic, imo. pinto Jan 2013 #28

+1 Jim__ Jan 2013 #32

Discussion? Please don't talk to me about "discussion" when it comes to the bayer family skepticscott Jan 2013 #33

Your consistent defense of cbayer, coupled with your eerily similar opinions, posting patterns, trotsky Jan 2013 #35

Curiouser and curiouser. n/t Goblinmonger Jan 2013 #37

A vendetta is exactly what it is. okasha Jan 2013 #40

Hijacking? Oh please. skepticscott Jan 2013 #47

Hmmmmm..no response...interesting. skepticscott Jan 2013 #45

Hi. Back in. Just wanted to speak my piece about civil discourse among members here. Which I did. pinto Jan 2013 #48

In other words, you direct your call for civility in one direction only skepticscott Jan 2013 #50

You win. I'm going to STFU. Sorry I ever stepped in on this. I shouldn't have. pinto Jan 2013 #57

Personal attacks? That's rich skepticscott Jan 2013 #64

See you around the campfire! n/t trotsky Jan 2013 #86

I wish he would have posted his theory rather than the chart. Jim__ Jan 2013 #20

The chart is pretty humorous, though. cbayer Jan 2013 #23

If our 14th century chap were familiar with Euclid's Elements, he would still today be a capable dimbear Jan 2013 #21

Conceit reteachinwi Jan 2013 #29

Auriga reteachinwi Jan 2013 #30

I wouldn't restrict the comparison to science; religion is stagnant compared to politics, too muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #36

The AVERAGE theist's beliefs ARE stuck in "bronze age" thinking. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #41

Oh, goody. okasha Jan 2013 #43

They aren't irrelevant to religious leaders though, and that gets taught cbayer Jan 2013 #49

And how many Christians would you say skepticscott Jan 2013 #51

Anti-intellectual indeed. okasha Jan 2013 #44

More Eliot reteachinwi Jan 2013 #53

Harris talked about 700 years ago; so most of your points are strawmen muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #73

Too parochial to be right. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #52

Well, you've got the talking point down. cbayer Jan 2013 #54

And your belief system is anything but talking points? TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #55

My belief system? My INERRANT reference manual? cbayer Jan 2013 #56

Broad as the one that says ALL NONBELIEVERS are damned... TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #60

I would equally challenge anyone who made such a broad statement. cbayer Jan 2013 #61

Thought it was self evident. For all beliefs... TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #63

That's true and I am wholly on the side of treating people with different cbayer Jan 2013 #66

Utter horseshit skepticscott Jan 2013 #70

Really? Lets take the poster child of compassion, Mother T. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #72

Lol! Mother Theresa. You have definitely got the playbooks down. cbayer Jan 2013 #74

I barely know who Dawkins is, except from snark like yours. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #75

I would be interested in seeing the posts on DU that cbayer Jan 2013 #76

ONLY path to salvation is to acknowledge and accept Jesus/God. TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #82

Again, a very narrow, fundamentalist view of it all. cbayer Jan 2013 #83

Let's suppose a time machine was invented. We then sent an average ... spin Jan 2013 #78

I'm not so sure. Without really understanding the culture into which the person cbayer Jan 2013 #79

If the modern American were found okasha Jan 2013 #84

Just as a single informed point, the Bible was written in the Iron Age. By propagandists. dimbear Jan 2013 #80