Religion

MineralMan

(151,424 posts)

35. So, it's OK to tell them it's God's will whether they live or die

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 04:12 PM

Jan 2013

on a daily basis? I'm afraid I can't see that. I was aware of death at age 5. My goldfish died, and my guinea pig, too. We buried them in the back yard and had a talk about death and dying. Nothing was said about any deities, though, since my parents weren't believers. We discussed it as part of a natural cycle, and that wasn't scary. The poem, on the other hand, was scary, since it seemed to say that some unseen entity was deciding on a daily basis whether I lived or died.

It didn't take long before the nonsense that represented faded away. The poems stayed on the wall, but only as curiosities from my grandmother.

Of one thing I'm sure: No such thing would ever grace the walls of any childhood bedroom I had anything to do with. It's inappropriate.

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Now I lay me down to sleep... [View all] MineralMan Jan 2013 OP

I remember that one, too. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #1

It is creepy, isn't it? MineralMan Jan 2013 #2

I said that prayer as a child for years, and never had any depressing worries about not waking up. northoftheborder Jan 2013 #3

"There are four angels on my bed, there are four angels on my spread, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, monmouth3 Jan 2013 #68

I never found it disturbing in the least, quite the contrary. cbayer Jan 2013 #4

OK. That was your experience. MineralMan Jan 2013 #5

That was my point - we had different experiences. cbayer Jan 2013 #7

Well, clearly there is something different in our MineralMan Jan 2013 #14

She sounds like what I recall of my great-grandmother. cbayer Jan 2013 #17

my maternal grandmother and mother both were full of woe. Voice for Peace Jan 2013 #62

I think imagination is essential to a healthy childhood. GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #32

I certainly agree with that. I'm just not sure that the level of imagination that a child cbayer Jan 2013 #38

Funny it's supposed to be comforting... Kalidurga Jan 2013 #6

Yes, and apparently that was true for some people. MineralMan Jan 2013 #8

I think you are onto something. Kalidurga Jan 2013 #11

Horse patooties. cbayer Jan 2013 #15

You are again speaking beyond your competence, I think. MineralMan Jan 2013 #20

Yes, my competence is very, very low. cbayer Jan 2013 #21

Nah, it just has to do with how it is presented and explained to you as a child. cbayer Jan 2013 #12

You know, I don't think you are competent to tell me why I reacted in the way I did. MineralMan Jan 2013 #16

*kiss* cbayer Jan 2013 #19

I have no wish to kiss you. Please don't be so familiar. MineralMan Jan 2013 #22

Okey, dokey. I will leave the speculating on why others reacted they way they did cbayer Jan 2013 #28

How about ... DreamGypsy Jan 2013 #9

Now, that's not frightening. MineralMan Jan 2013 #10

Found this one as well, lol cbayer Jan 2013 #13

The earliest version of that was wriiten three hundred years ago. rug Jan 2013 #18

Yes, I'm aware of that. I use Wikipedia, too. MineralMan Jan 2013 #23

It's a strange mindset that calls it "death-oriented religious poetry". rug Jan 2013 #24

I'm familiar with Ring Around the Rosie, as well. MineralMan Jan 2013 #25

A votre service. rug Jan 2013 #26

Wiki says: "Urban legend says the song originally described the plague, but folklorists reject this" muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #69

Snopes agrees with wiki. rug Jan 2013 #71

No; the entire point of the rhyme is (a) you might die at any moment muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #72

That's utter rubbish. rug Jan 2013 #74

OK, we'll remove the bits about God keeping them alive or taking them to heaven muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #75

That is from your wiki. rug Jan 2013 #77

What - one local interpretation? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #79

The original doesn't state where the hill was. rug Jan 2013 #80

So, nothing about 'death' in the version you learnt, either muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #82

I daresay breaking one's crown results in death. rug Jan 2013 #84

Nor is it today.... Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #27

Absolutely correct. rug Jan 2013 #29

I think it has performed a sometimes valuable function in allowing cbayer Jan 2013 #30

I agree. It's naive to think children are unaware of death. rug Jan 2013 #31

So, it's OK to tell them it's God's will whether they live or die MineralMan Jan 2013 #35

The religious part of the poem is about love and mercy, not death by whim. rug Jan 2013 #46

'Mercy'? You want the child to think God is being extra kind by keeping them alive? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #70

Don't put your twisted interpretation under my name. rug Jan 2013 #73

You're the one who brought up God's "mercy" for a rhyme about God keeping you alive muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #76

It's not about Godd keeping anyone alive - or killing anyone. rug Jan 2013 #78

Here are the bits about keeping the child alive: muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #81

Lol, really, are you now trying to use nursery rhymes to support your ant-theism? rug Jan 2013 #83

If you could trust him, there'd be no need to pray to stay alive every day and night muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #86

Do you really think this verse is a plea to stay alive? rug Jan 2013 #87

Yes, it self-evidently is muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #88

Hardly,. You know, this nursery rhyme seems to have a tighter grip on reality, rug Jan 2013 #89

And the rhyme explicitly says it's only God that stops death, every night (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #90

Well, then, it must truly be an evil entity. rug Jan 2013 #91

My Catholic childhood prayer was... murray hill farm Jan 2013 #85

Perfect opportunity ... GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #33

Perhaps, but that trust can be challenged by things like an unexpected cbayer Jan 2013 #36

Whatever do the children of non-believers do? MineralMan Jan 2013 #41

Of course they survive just fine. Their parents offer an alternative explanation, cbayer Jan 2013 #45

That's why my parents got me a pair of guinea pigs MineralMan Jan 2013 #48

That's great. Different parents do different things to teach their children, and, cbayer Jan 2013 #53

Not all parents transmit myths. MineralMan Jan 2013 #56

As soon as you were able to understand being the key. cbayer Jan 2013 #57

Children seem to survive the death of their toddler myths, I think. MineralMan Jan 2013 #59

Still sad to be the bearer of bad news, imo. cbayer Jan 2013 #61

My parents took an interesting position on religious education. MineralMan Jan 2013 #54

And many atheists would find the road your parents chose anathema. cbayer Jan 2013 #55

It worked out just fine, all around. MineralMan Jan 2013 #58

Seems like the people who have fear issues are usually non-believers Leontius Jan 2013 #34

At age 5, there are no believers or non-believers. MineralMan Jan 2013 #37

You were not capable of that level of reasoning at that age Leontius Jan 2013 #64

Really? okasha Jan 2013 #95

I got your answer to that right here, okasha. cbayer Jan 2013 #96

This is really fascinating. trotsky Jan 2013 #103

I stand by my statement. MineralMan Jan 2013 #97

My experience has been that the more extremely religious people The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #65

Yeah it's weird for sure. EvilAL Jan 2013 #39

It seems there were two very different reactions to it MineralMan Jan 2013 #43

Yeah, EvilAL Jan 2013 #49

It's the first poem I memorized 2naSalit Jan 2013 #40

Thanks for your perspective. MineralMan Jan 2013 #42

I'd seen it around and figured it was a prayer kids would say. EvilAL Jan 2013 #50

When I was a child I was accepting of it 2naSalit Jan 2013 #51

That prayer was written in the 1600's when a lot of children died moobu2 Jan 2013 #44

Makes sense. EvilAL Jan 2013 #52

Also when Homer made Bart EvilAL Jan 2013 #47

My non-religious father..... katanalori Jan 2013 #60

I can honestly say I shared the OP's opinion when young DryRain Jan 2013 #63

It is a sick and twisted prayer. Control-Z Jan 2013 #66

Your story is so poignant and heart breaking. cbayer Jan 2013 #67

My grandmother, a former schoolteacher.... jdadd Jan 2013 #92

Sensible MineralMan Jan 2013 #93

My grandmother used to make me say that when I spent the night at her and granddad's house. applegrove Jan 2013 #94

funny i barely recall being about 4yo and having a similar chat with my mom Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #98

another one is 'will you swear to god on a bible?' Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #99

So, you gave up your god in order to feel better about lying? cbayer Jan 2013 #100

hey i didn't invent the ultimatum. Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #107

No, but you certainly made hay with the *ultimatum*. cbayer Jan 2013 #109

it didn't feel like hay making at the time. Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #112

Your parents �didn't do indoctrination much,� okasha Jan 2013 #110

'strange' is the right word for my dad. Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #111

I think it was taught in every home and Sunday School Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #101

For someone who has already converted to Christianity, the poem is understandable. gtar100 Jan 2013 #102

I learned the first one as a small child. trotsky Jan 2013 #104

It seems like it bothered some people as children, MineralMan Jan 2013 #105

Some people are more easily indoctrinated than others, I think. trotsky Jan 2013 #106

I expect it's different life experiences. okasha Jan 2013 #108