Religion

muriel_volestrangler

(106,212 posts)

62. The claim that "people are born into religions" is one of the worst things about religion

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:16 AM

Feb 2013

and it's that kind of attitude that give people like the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church so much power to spread and maintain their bigotry. And no, it's not racism. Anti-catholic sentiment can come from the many awful things the church thinks and has done - homophobia, misogyny, covering up pedophilia, the Magdalene laundries ...

I agree that the thread that started this off was an unwarranted attack on Catholics in general, and should have been hidden. But you have to realise that people can choose their religion, or can leave it completely. By implying that would be a bad thing to do (with the 'like an old pair of socks' dismissal), you are empowering the Pope and cardinals, and their misogyny and homophobia. And you actually encourage people to think just like that OP - that they are born into the church which can, itself, be legitimately attacked for its many faults.

You allow the hierarchy to claim that they have a billion members of their religion - but they get to choose what the religion's attitude is, and people don't get to say "I disagree - don't call me Catholic, if that's what's involved". It's no coincidence that they are against contraception - they want as many babies born to Catholics as possible, and it's your attitude that will then call those babies 'Catholic'.

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Catholic "criminals" [View all] BainsBane Feb 2013 OP

How many more non public figures? HockeyMom Feb 2013 #1

Yeah I was disappointed about the Catholic criminals comment. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #2

wrong place BainsBane Feb 2013 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Feb 2013 #8

Anglicans/Episcopalians are catholic. We are just not Roman Catholic. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #10

really? BainsBane Feb 2013 #12

The RCC does not accept our ordinations because we do not say the prayer of sacrifice at our hrmjustin Feb 2013 #16

there are many things I admire about the Episcopal church BainsBane Feb 2013 #17

We do have conservative members, but every diocese has to have at least one parish that hrmjustin Feb 2013 #18

Bullshit AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #127

How do you want me to respond to that? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #132

With the truth, if at all. The truth is always good. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #135

I did tell the truth! hrmjustin Feb 2013 #136

"Anglicans/Episcopalians are catholic." Saying something that is obviously not true is disrespectful AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #137

Not every catholic is roman catholic. Even the RC church will tell you that. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #138

Can I ask why are you so upset by my statements? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #140

Saying something that is so obviously not true is insulting the intelligence of the readers. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #141

Why don't you spell out for me why you think I am wrong. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #142

I would like to know why you disagree. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #143

Maybe Mcintosh doesn't know the meaning of the word "catholic." Beartracks Feb 2013 #152

I was just shocked by the reaction. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #159

It's the kind of bullying that goes on in this group and I give you kudos for cbayer Feb 2013 #161

I would still love to know why he was so angry at what I said. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #162

I can't tell either, but I wouldn't anticipate a response at this point. cbayer Feb 2013 #163

Am I ever going to get an answer to why you think I am wrong, or should I not bother anymore? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #164

What are you trying to say at the bottom of your post?? Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #3

Just what I said BainsBane Feb 2013 #14

I can agree with that however, Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #19

absolutely BainsBane Feb 2013 #20

Catholics aren't "hated" because of religious affiliation. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #64

my thoughts exactly. Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #104

Alert? Alert for what? What possible rule do you think has been broken here. cbayer Feb 2013 #119

You're right skepticscott Feb 2013 #129

and then there are the abusive old bats Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #102

What is the point of your post Smilo Feb 2013 #4

My point is that bigotry is unacceptable BainsBane Feb 2013 #6

Oh please you are being Smilo Feb 2013 #21

substitute Muslims or Jews BainsBane Feb 2013 #24

I was going to reply to how you have twisted things so out of proportion Smilo Feb 2013 #34

hear, hear! defacto7 Feb 2013 #58

thank you BainsBane Feb 2013 #82

I respectfully disagree. Religion IS a choice and it is a choice which church one affiliates idwiyo Feb 2013 #88

it would be nice if you bothered to read some of my posts BainsBane Feb 2013 #89

First of all, I am not American and I don't live in US, I live in UK. idwiyo Feb 2013 #90

a few points BainsBane Feb 2013 #116

The Catholic vote isn't a Democratic voting block, or even a voting block at all ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #91

the conversion you describe BainsBane Feb 2013 #131

Then I'd call this modernization an unquestionably good thing ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #147

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #151

You are making some large leaps there ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #153

Right back atcha. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #65

Uh, Catholics are just fine Warpy Feb 2013 #7

It's a shame this has to be said. cbayer Feb 2013 #9

I was responding to this question from Sid's when the thread was locked BainsBane Feb 2013 #11

Sorry check your history uriel1972 Feb 2013 #101

I know why the Church of England broke off BainsBane Feb 2013 #109

Every now and then there is a move uriel1972 Feb 2013 #158

Strawman. The outrage is directed at the Church hierarchy. snagglepuss Feb 2013 #13

Read the link BainsBane Feb 2013 #15

Read before you pontificate. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #66

What do you suggest I read? BainsBane Feb 2013 #70

John J. Collins, Yale Professor of Old Testament on the Vatican and the Church: dimbear Feb 2013 #22

I think a lot of Catholics feel that way BainsBane Feb 2013 #26

Are all those people 'compassionate' people because they are Catholic... Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #23

obviously not BainsBane Feb 2013 #25

So then... Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #27

I suppose in the same way BainsBane Feb 2013 #28

Exactement mon fr�re!! Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #31

The law requires the payment of taxes, on penalty of fine or imprisonment skepticscott Feb 2013 #32

People are born into religions BainsBane Feb 2013 #33

Boy, you do make a lot of shit up, don't you? skepticscott Feb 2013 #37

If you can dispute any specific points BainsBane Feb 2013 #39

As expected, nothing but evasion..typical lame apologetics skepticscott Feb 2013 #59

The hierarchy of the church BainsBane Feb 2013 #71

Still making shit up out of thin air, eh? skepticscott Feb 2013 #72

What do you think this whole thread is about? BainsBane Feb 2013 #78

yes. we do. (see i mean) Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #105

I was born into Catholicism and nope, not Catholic ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #38

millions of people on this earth feel and act otherwise BainsBane Feb 2013 #40

If the past is what you find valuable... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #42

firstly, I don't go to church BainsBane Feb 2013 #44

Read it. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #45

You're wrong BainsBane Feb 2013 #47

A HAVEN???? Plantaganet Feb 2013 #49

again, I'm speaking historically BainsBane Feb 2013 #51

I didn't say they stayed Catholic "because they were not gay," Plantaganet Feb 2013 #52

you love to pass judgement on others BainsBane Feb 2013 #55

I reckon you'll just have to forgive me! Plantaganet Feb 2013 #57

you passed judgement on me with your reply in Meta. Maine-ah Feb 2013 #69

you're a historian? Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #103

You obviously haven't read my posts BainsBane Feb 2013 #110

Not a very good authority to appeal to skepticscott Feb 2013 #60

There's a lack of consistency, for sure. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #68

Sullivan wasn't a Republican BainsBane Feb 2013 #74

"The majority of Catholic clergy in this country are in fact gay and identify as such"? Ridiculous muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #61

difference between Church doctrine and practice BainsBane Feb 2013 #73

That hardly proves that the MAJORITY of Catholic clergy are gay and identify as such ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #87

actually the NPR piece indicates BainsBane Feb 2013 #92

I listened. I only heard of "estimates that 10-50% of seminarians" are gay ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #94

Here's another source BainsBane Feb 2013 #96

To me that does not matter ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #97

Did I say you should affiliate? BainsBane Feb 2013 #99

Thank you for calling those comments out as the absurdities they are. So offensive to hear that Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #83

Right on. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #84

Did you listen to the NPR piece? BainsBane Feb 2013 #93

The NPR piece never stated a majority of clergy are gay ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #95

I never said they were ethnic traitors BainsBane Feb 2013 #98

Perhaps you didn't ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #115

Moreover, you know you misrepresented my point BainsBane Feb 2013 #100

Man oh man how you edited this post! You originally said most priests in the US are openly Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #165

But doing that would take honesty and integrity. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #166

Yep here's the original post: ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #167

This part kind of stood out to me: ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #46

think about Jews BainsBane Feb 2013 #48

The difference is there is an actual Jewish ethnicity ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #50

You do realize ethnicity is culturally constructed? BainsBane Feb 2013 #53

So then does one of those who converts lose their ethnicity? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #54

it's how you see yourself BainsBane Feb 2013 #56

no ethnicity is not how you see yourself, ffs! Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #106

Good god BainsBane Feb 2013 #111

Here's a guide from PBS BainsBane Feb 2013 #112

Race doesn't exist, ethnicity does Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #117

origin can be traced biologically BainsBane Feb 2013 #118

I'm not disagreeing per se Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #122

I see your point BainsBane Feb 2013 #125

To be fair... Meshuga Feb 2013 #120

Mistakes were made :\ Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #121

I see your point. Meshuga Feb 2013 #123

Wow... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #41

Thanks ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #43

The claim that "people are born into religions" is one of the worst things about religion muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #62

I'd like to rec this if I could for replies ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #67

The Church only has the power you assign to it BainsBane Feb 2013 #76

I think that people should choose religion, if they want to, as adults muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #77

and you know this how? BainsBane Feb 2013 #79

The reason why you never heard a thing about homosexuality being a sin... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #85

If you're going to cut out the Catholic hierarchy, why not just be something else? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #86

or atheist for example? Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #107

Because there is a lot within the church that has nothing to do with the current hierarchy cap Feb 2013 #108

Yeah! Push 'em out! trotsky Feb 2013 #113

I really don't see how that's happening ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #114

Wouldn't that be nice BainsBane Feb 2013 #130

That sort of thing already exists ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #144

so now you're converting? BainsBane Feb 2013 #145

What? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #148

You're trying to convert me BainsBane Feb 2013 #150

I was simply making a point, not recommendations ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #154

As someone raised Catholic... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #35

Agreed. I'm not a Catholic or a religious believer at all, and I am no fan of most of the hierarchy LeftishBrit Feb 2013 #29

thank you! BainsBane Feb 2013 #30

And, as usual, I agree with you. Meshuga Feb 2013 #124

I think I said all I had to say in onehandle's thread. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #36

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #63

To Zoeisright's post BainsBane Feb 2013 #75

Don't bother. She's been kicked from this thread. cbayer Feb 2013 #80

I know, that's why I responded here BainsBane Feb 2013 #81

as long as I was the one who started this.... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #126

A good number of those people above BainsBane Feb 2013 #128

MISSING THE POINT... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #133

While there is no excusing for the heinous crimes and cover up of the catholic church, cbayer Feb 2013 #134

You miss every point BainsBane Feb 2013 #149

As long as good Catholics continue to support and uphold the Vatican, nothing will change Marrah_G Feb 2013 #139

How do good catholics BainsBane Feb 2013 #146

By giving them money and power. Marrah_G Feb 2013 #160

So I put in the words "kennedy denounces child abuse" Bennyboy Feb 2013 #155

"Biden denouces catholic child abuse"... and guess fucking what... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #156

So I thought "Mother Teresa denounces child abuse" and guess fucking what? Bennyboy Feb 2013 #157