Religion

ButterflyBlood

(12,644 posts)

86. If you're going to cut out the Catholic hierarchy, why not just be something else?

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:59 AM

Feb 2013

Episcopalian for example. Or the Old Catholic Church, a schism that ordains married men and women and has many parishes that accept homosexuals. The nearest "Catholic" church tome is not a Roman Catholic one, but one that identifies as "Independent Catholic", is not related to the Roman hierarchy, is pastored by a married priest, and is on a list of local gay-affirming churches I've seen. Being "Catholic" without the hierarchy is really quite simple, but it also means not being a Roman Catholic.

As it is I didn't even join one of these "Catholic-lite" groups because my objections to Catholicism went far beyond the reactionary politics, but their very existence kind of puts into place just how pointless it is to try to be a Catholic against the hierarchy.

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Catholic "criminals" [View all] BainsBane Feb 2013 OP

How many more non public figures? HockeyMom Feb 2013 #1

Yeah I was disappointed about the Catholic criminals comment. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #2

wrong place BainsBane Feb 2013 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Feb 2013 #8

Anglicans/Episcopalians are catholic. We are just not Roman Catholic. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #10

really? BainsBane Feb 2013 #12

The RCC does not accept our ordinations because we do not say the prayer of sacrifice at our hrmjustin Feb 2013 #16

there are many things I admire about the Episcopal church BainsBane Feb 2013 #17

We do have conservative members, but every diocese has to have at least one parish that hrmjustin Feb 2013 #18

Bullshit AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #127

How do you want me to respond to that? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #132

With the truth, if at all. The truth is always good. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #135

I did tell the truth! hrmjustin Feb 2013 #136

"Anglicans/Episcopalians are catholic." Saying something that is obviously not true is disrespectful AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #137

Not every catholic is roman catholic. Even the RC church will tell you that. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #138

Can I ask why are you so upset by my statements? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #140

Saying something that is so obviously not true is insulting the intelligence of the readers. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #141

Why don't you spell out for me why you think I am wrong. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #142

I would like to know why you disagree. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #143

Maybe Mcintosh doesn't know the meaning of the word "catholic." Beartracks Feb 2013 #152

I was just shocked by the reaction. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #159

It's the kind of bullying that goes on in this group and I give you kudos for cbayer Feb 2013 #161

I would still love to know why he was so angry at what I said. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #162

I can't tell either, but I wouldn't anticipate a response at this point. cbayer Feb 2013 #163

Am I ever going to get an answer to why you think I am wrong, or should I not bother anymore? hrmjustin Feb 2013 #164

What are you trying to say at the bottom of your post?? Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #3

Just what I said BainsBane Feb 2013 #14

I can agree with that however, Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #19

absolutely BainsBane Feb 2013 #20

Catholics aren't "hated" because of religious affiliation. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #64

my thoughts exactly. Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #104

Alert? Alert for what? What possible rule do you think has been broken here. cbayer Feb 2013 #119

You're right skepticscott Feb 2013 #129

and then there are the abusive old bats Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #102

What is the point of your post Smilo Feb 2013 #4

My point is that bigotry is unacceptable BainsBane Feb 2013 #6

Oh please you are being Smilo Feb 2013 #21

substitute Muslims or Jews BainsBane Feb 2013 #24

I was going to reply to how you have twisted things so out of proportion Smilo Feb 2013 #34

hear, hear! defacto7 Feb 2013 #58

thank you BainsBane Feb 2013 #82

I respectfully disagree. Religion IS a choice and it is a choice which church one affiliates idwiyo Feb 2013 #88

it would be nice if you bothered to read some of my posts BainsBane Feb 2013 #89

First of all, I am not American and I don't live in US, I live in UK. idwiyo Feb 2013 #90

a few points BainsBane Feb 2013 #116

The Catholic vote isn't a Democratic voting block, or even a voting block at all ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #91

the conversion you describe BainsBane Feb 2013 #131

Then I'd call this modernization an unquestionably good thing ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #147

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #151

You are making some large leaps there ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #153

Right back atcha. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #65

Uh, Catholics are just fine Warpy Feb 2013 #7

It's a shame this has to be said. cbayer Feb 2013 #9

I was responding to this question from Sid's when the thread was locked BainsBane Feb 2013 #11

Sorry check your history uriel1972 Feb 2013 #101

I know why the Church of England broke off BainsBane Feb 2013 #109

Every now and then there is a move uriel1972 Feb 2013 #158

Strawman. The outrage is directed at the Church hierarchy. snagglepuss Feb 2013 #13

Read the link BainsBane Feb 2013 #15

Read before you pontificate. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #66

What do you suggest I read? BainsBane Feb 2013 #70

John J. Collins, Yale Professor of Old Testament on the Vatican and the Church: dimbear Feb 2013 #22

I think a lot of Catholics feel that way BainsBane Feb 2013 #26

Are all those people 'compassionate' people because they are Catholic... Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #23

obviously not BainsBane Feb 2013 #25

So then... Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #27

I suppose in the same way BainsBane Feb 2013 #28

Exactement mon fr�re!! Lost-in-FL Feb 2013 #31

The law requires the payment of taxes, on penalty of fine or imprisonment skepticscott Feb 2013 #32

People are born into religions BainsBane Feb 2013 #33

Boy, you do make a lot of shit up, don't you? skepticscott Feb 2013 #37

If you can dispute any specific points BainsBane Feb 2013 #39

As expected, nothing but evasion..typical lame apologetics skepticscott Feb 2013 #59

The hierarchy of the church BainsBane Feb 2013 #71

Still making shit up out of thin air, eh? skepticscott Feb 2013 #72

What do you think this whole thread is about? BainsBane Feb 2013 #78

yes. we do. (see i mean) Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #105

I was born into Catholicism and nope, not Catholic ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #38

millions of people on this earth feel and act otherwise BainsBane Feb 2013 #40

If the past is what you find valuable... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #42

firstly, I don't go to church BainsBane Feb 2013 #44

Read it. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #45

You're wrong BainsBane Feb 2013 #47

A HAVEN???? Plantaganet Feb 2013 #49

again, I'm speaking historically BainsBane Feb 2013 #51

I didn't say they stayed Catholic "because they were not gay," Plantaganet Feb 2013 #52

you love to pass judgement on others BainsBane Feb 2013 #55

I reckon you'll just have to forgive me! Plantaganet Feb 2013 #57

you passed judgement on me with your reply in Meta. Maine-ah Feb 2013 #69

you're a historian? Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #103

You obviously haven't read my posts BainsBane Feb 2013 #110

Not a very good authority to appeal to skepticscott Feb 2013 #60

There's a lack of consistency, for sure. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #68

Sullivan wasn't a Republican BainsBane Feb 2013 #74

"The majority of Catholic clergy in this country are in fact gay and identify as such"? Ridiculous muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #61

difference between Church doctrine and practice BainsBane Feb 2013 #73

That hardly proves that the MAJORITY of Catholic clergy are gay and identify as such ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #87

actually the NPR piece indicates BainsBane Feb 2013 #92

I listened. I only heard of "estimates that 10-50% of seminarians" are gay ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #94

Here's another source BainsBane Feb 2013 #96

To me that does not matter ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #97

Did I say you should affiliate? BainsBane Feb 2013 #99

Thank you for calling those comments out as the absurdities they are. So offensive to hear that Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #83

Right on. Plantaganet Feb 2013 #84

Did you listen to the NPR piece? BainsBane Feb 2013 #93

The NPR piece never stated a majority of clergy are gay ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #95

I never said they were ethnic traitors BainsBane Feb 2013 #98

Perhaps you didn't ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #115

Moreover, you know you misrepresented my point BainsBane Feb 2013 #100

Man oh man how you edited this post! You originally said most priests in the US are openly Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #165

But doing that would take honesty and integrity. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #166

Yep here's the original post: ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #167

This part kind of stood out to me: ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #46

think about Jews BainsBane Feb 2013 #48

The difference is there is an actual Jewish ethnicity ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #50

You do realize ethnicity is culturally constructed? BainsBane Feb 2013 #53

So then does one of those who converts lose their ethnicity? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #54

it's how you see yourself BainsBane Feb 2013 #56

no ethnicity is not how you see yourself, ffs! Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #106

Good god BainsBane Feb 2013 #111

Here's a guide from PBS BainsBane Feb 2013 #112

Race doesn't exist, ethnicity does Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #117

origin can be traced biologically BainsBane Feb 2013 #118

I'm not disagreeing per se Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #122

I see your point BainsBane Feb 2013 #125

To be fair... Meshuga Feb 2013 #120

Mistakes were made :\ Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #121

I see your point. Meshuga Feb 2013 #123

Wow... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #41

Thanks ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #43

The claim that "people are born into religions" is one of the worst things about religion muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #62

I'd like to rec this if I could for replies ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #67

The Church only has the power you assign to it BainsBane Feb 2013 #76

I think that people should choose religion, if they want to, as adults muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #77

and you know this how? BainsBane Feb 2013 #79

The reason why you never heard a thing about homosexuality being a sin... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #85

If you're going to cut out the Catholic hierarchy, why not just be something else? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #86

or atheist for example? Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #107

Because there is a lot within the church that has nothing to do with the current hierarchy cap Feb 2013 #108

Yeah! Push 'em out! trotsky Feb 2013 #113

I really don't see how that's happening ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #114

Wouldn't that be nice BainsBane Feb 2013 #130

That sort of thing already exists ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #144

so now you're converting? BainsBane Feb 2013 #145

What? ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #148

You're trying to convert me BainsBane Feb 2013 #150

I was simply making a point, not recommendations ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #154

As someone raised Catholic... Plantaganet Feb 2013 #35

Agreed. I'm not a Catholic or a religious believer at all, and I am no fan of most of the hierarchy LeftishBrit Feb 2013 #29

thank you! BainsBane Feb 2013 #30

And, as usual, I agree with you. Meshuga Feb 2013 #124

I think I said all I had to say in onehandle's thread. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #36

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #63

To Zoeisright's post BainsBane Feb 2013 #75

Don't bother. She's been kicked from this thread. cbayer Feb 2013 #80

I know, that's why I responded here BainsBane Feb 2013 #81

as long as I was the one who started this.... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #126

A good number of those people above BainsBane Feb 2013 #128

MISSING THE POINT... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #133

While there is no excusing for the heinous crimes and cover up of the catholic church, cbayer Feb 2013 #134

You miss every point BainsBane Feb 2013 #149

As long as good Catholics continue to support and uphold the Vatican, nothing will change Marrah_G Feb 2013 #139

How do good catholics BainsBane Feb 2013 #146

By giving them money and power. Marrah_G Feb 2013 #160

So I put in the words "kennedy denounces child abuse" Bennyboy Feb 2013 #155

"Biden denouces catholic child abuse"... and guess fucking what... Bennyboy Feb 2013 #156

So I thought "Mother Teresa denounces child abuse" and guess fucking what? Bennyboy Feb 2013 #157