Religion

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)

28. You think religion facilitates loyalty, art, and introspection?

Sat Jan 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

Jan 2012

Is it not possible, even likely, that it's the other way 'round? These things were, after all, around long before religion.

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The [in]compatibility of science and religion [View all] cleanhippie Jan 2012 OP

I always thought they were incompatible and felt arguments to the contrary were appeasement. Scuba Jan 2012 #1

I tend to agree. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #6

Disagree. Both have been successful rrneck Jan 2012 #2

Can you elaborate on that? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #4

These may be a bit short (damn phone) rrneck Jan 2012 #14

+1 Succinct and (IMO) very accurate. n/t GliderGuider Jan 2012 #27

You think religion facilitates loyalty, art, and introspection? darkstar3 Jan 2012 #28

Paleolithic religion goes back at least 50,000 years. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #31

3 notes. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #37

Fair enough. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #58

1 note tama Jan 2012 #60

Well actually what i said was rrneck Jan 2012 #44

I really hate it when people play with orthogonal definitions of the word "faith". darkstar3 Jan 2012 #46

My definition of faith: rrneck Jan 2012 #53

And why does YOUR definition matter? darkstar3 Jan 2012 #56

We understand by comprehending tama Jan 2012 #61

Thank you for proving my final point in that post. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #63

You're wellcome! nt tama Jan 2012 #71

okay rrneck Jan 2012 #68

Note how those are entirely two definitions for the word. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #70

Your point tama Jan 2012 #72

It really doesn't. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #75

The term orthogonal is a non sequitur rrneck Jan 2012 #77

Um, no, it really isn't. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #79

Got that name yet? rrneck Jan 2012 #84

Did I say I was looking for one? darkstar3 Jan 2012 #86

How so? rrneck Jan 2012 #89

It's called the "fallacy of equivocation." ChadwickHenryWard Jan 2012 #137

Phenomenally and psychologically tama Jan 2012 #140

Of the things you attribute to faith, they can be attributed to much more... cleanhippie Jan 2012 #32

I never really asserted exclusivity rrneck Jan 2012 #48

OK, just off your first sentence. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #50

Fractals... rrneck Jan 2012 #64

You crack me up with the moving of your goalposts. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #69

If you cant take the heat... rrneck Jan 2012 #78

Sorry, it seemed as if your were asserting that. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #54

No worries. rrneck Jan 2012 #65

njoying one's work does not equate to faith. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #66

Well, I'm posting from a goddamn phone rrneck Jan 2012 #76

"Science created" tama Jan 2012 #83

There is no reason why a religion cannot be compatible with science FarCenter Jan 2012 #3

Wouldn't constructing, reinterpreting, or reforming the religion make it NOT relgion? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #5

I wouldn't believe tama Jan 2012 #7

Uhm, okay. cleanhippie Jan 2012 #8

It's very difficult tama Jan 2012 #10

It is very difficult to have a conversation with someone cleanhippie Jan 2012 #11

My academic background tama Jan 2012 #15

So what sense does it make skepticscott Jan 2012 #12

As I said above tama Jan 2012 #17

It is? How convenient nt mr blur Jan 2012 #21

Religions are created or modified all the time FarCenter Jan 2012 #107

Dogmatic materialism tama Jan 2012 #9

I dare you to define skepticscott Jan 2012 #13

it doesnt have a definition cleanhippie Jan 2012 #16

E.g. tama Jan 2012 #19

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #23

Sheesh, that's it? skepticscott Jan 2012 #36

OK, please enlighten me tama Jan 2012 #55

Skepticism is simply skepticscott Jan 2012 #67

I've been a long time tama Jan 2012 #81

Rational inquiry doesn't care skepticscott Jan 2012 #88

That's very sad tama Jan 2012 #94

Nice try, but all BS skepticscott Jan 2012 #99

You state your bias very clearly: tama Jan 2012 #102

You're just clinging to Sheldrake like a life preserver, aren't you? skepticscott Jan 2012 #112

"Scientism" seems to be a proper term for your concern. nt humblebum Jan 2012 #20

That's the word I'd use. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #29

And what exactly is your definition of "scientism" skepticscott Jan 2012 #40

Well, dogmatic materialism is a pretty good definition. humblebum Jan 2012 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Jan 2012 #49

Well, you've said yourself skepticscott Jan 2012 #74

I have no doubt that it has been given the status of a religion in some quarters even humblebum Jan 2012 #80

You have no doubt skepticscott Jan 2012 #85

You are in denial. Another closely related term is "Scientific Atheism." Of course, humblebum Jan 2012 #91

I'm satisfied with the one in Wikipedia GliderGuider Jan 2012 #52

Sure, let's throw in Wiki definitions and UrbanDictionary too! darkstar3 Jan 2012 #57

Well, you're always after me to adhere to definitions. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #59

Made up? darkstar3 Jan 2012 #62

Except that every time you're challenged skepticscott Jan 2012 #38

Actually, I don't remember mentioning the term here before, so if humblebum Jan 2012 #43

Do you deny that you yourself once said skepticscott Jan 2012 #73

Where did I ever deny it? I merely said I didn't recall and asked you to humblebum Jan 2012 #82

Who said you denied it? I asked if you did. skepticscott Jan 2012 #87

Yeh, Uh Huh. I suppose it's open to interpretation, but humblebum Jan 2012 #90

You would say? skepticscott Jan 2012 #92

Yeh Uh huh.nt humblebum Jan 2012 #93

Materialism and phenomenology: the "Two Solitudes" GliderGuider Jan 2012 #106

I am not so sure that they were even meant to be compatible, as such, because humblebum Jan 2012 #18

Read some religious works from back in the 1800's The Straight Story Jan 2012 #22

That's because those discoveries didn't challenge the beliefs of religious people... Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #24

Conflict occurs tama Jan 2012 #25

There are medicinal plants tama Jan 2012 #26

Science and religion approach questions they hope to answer from entirely different points of view. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #30

I agree completely. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #33

Not at all. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #34

Careful - that's much like what science does. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #35

Not even close skepticscott Jan 2012 #39

There's that too. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #42

That's exactly why I said GliderGuider Jan 2012 #47

For example tama Jan 2012 #95

And how has the hypothesis skepticscott Jan 2012 #98

Thy hypothesis tama Jan 2012 #101

Yep. I am an enthusiastic anecdote in that regard. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #105

And problem with materialism tama Jan 2012 #108

The problem with phenomenology GliderGuider Jan 2012 #109

I enjoy my morning coffee tama Jan 2012 #124

Yes, there are days we seem as fortunate as gods. And then there are the other days... GliderGuider Jan 2012 #131

Yes, she tama Jan 2012 #138

That's not the hypothesis I asked about skepticscott Jan 2012 #111

That was the hypothesis tama Jan 2012 #120

That's a mischaracterization. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #41

There is no way to arrive at truths about the material universe through theological processes GliderGuider Jan 2012 #51

theology and religion tama Jan 2012 #97

The religion/science debate has always been a deep and pointless rabbit hole. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #104

And how much of what has been seen skepticscott Jan 2012 #114

Shrug. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #115

Apparently important enough skepticscott Jan 2012 #121

The thing is, GliderGuider Jan 2012 #123

Sorry if getting at the truth skepticscott Jan 2012 #125

Are we getting at the truth here? GliderGuider Jan 2012 #130

And yet one flowed directly from the other skepticscott Jan 2012 #133

This from one of two people who have shown that they are uninterested in any form darkstar3 Jan 2012 #126

Are you a scientist? tama Jan 2012 #96

It's also entirely possible that I misunderstand the process of theological thought. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #113

They're not incompatible, they're complimentary. Sal316 Jan 2012 #100

Complimentary? Religion interprets? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #103

As a degreed theologian and a scientist with 20+ experience... Sal316 Jan 2012 #116

Wise words. And since they have been compatible for this many centuries, humblebum Jan 2012 #117

That's called compartmentalization. Have fun with that. darkstar3 Jan 2012 #118

Must all of human experience fall under a single interpretive umbrella? GliderGuider Jan 2012 #119

I never said it did. Perhaps you are confused as to what compartmentalization means? darkstar3 Jan 2012 #127

I know what it means. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #129

You mean it allows you to believe that they can co-exist, darkstar3 Jan 2012 #134

OK then. I didn't misunderstand. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #135

Now ask yourself this question: darkstar3 Jan 2012 #136

Value vs. meaning GliderGuider Jan 2012 #141

Yet your gripe here always seems to be skepticscott Jan 2012 #122

I agree with everything you just said rrneck Jan 2012 #128

As long as religions change and adapt to scientific advances and discoveries moobu2 Jan 2012 #110

I find it incoherent. Igel Jan 2012 #132

. GliderGuider Jan 2012 #139