Religion

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)

43. I go through this argument all the time on DU.

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 11:45 PM

Mar 2013

A Christian will say that "most christians" or "some christians" don't believe in original sin.

I find that impossible to believe.

Christianity consists of two necessary premises: If you are a Christian you believe that Jesus is the Messiah. That you believe in original sin as a starting premise, and substitutionary atonement as the necessary sequel to the original sin.

If you don't believe in original sin, then you don't need to have Jesus die for your sins. The only Christians I can think of that would qualify would be Universalists who believe in universal salvation. They were merged with the Unitarians, who believed in one god, in 1961.

Nowadays, the Unitarian-Universalists do not explicitly say they are Christian. They are a non-creedal religion, which means they cannot officially be Christian. See my explanation above.
Christians also argue with me that they don't have to recite a creed, which is false. If they didn't recite what they believe, they wouldn't be Christians.

UUs are generally atheists, agnostics, pagan or just wondering and want a community to hang out with that is not forcing anyone to believe anything.

www.uua.org

I would like cbayer to show us a Christian denomination that does not believe in original sin, as it is the very essence of Christian doctrine and belief.

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Highlight:

Good News Clubs: Psychologically abusing your children in a public elementary school near you! [View all] backscatter712 Mar 2013 OP

If Good News Clubs have to be allowed, why not elementary clubs for no_hypocrisy Mar 2013 #1

Dawkins et al discussed this. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #3

They would have to accept all of those and would likely lose any judicial challenge cbayer Mar 2013 #4

Frightening. An expose was published last year: cbayer Mar 2013 #2

Good info here! n/t backscatter712 Mar 2013 #22

How Christian fundamentalists plan to teach genocide to schoolchildren (Katherine Stewart) struggle4progress Mar 2013 #44

Careful..this will get you branded as a "bigot" skepticscott Mar 2013 #5

Let me know how the alert goes. n/t backscatter712 Mar 2013 #6

Oh, they won't have the stones to alert on you skepticscott Mar 2013 #8

Just watched that entire video today nonoyes Mar 2013 #7

Parents can stop them. Participation in these clubs is always voluntary. cbayer Mar 2013 #9

Actually, if you watched the video and read the court's decision, - nonoyes Mar 2013 #10

Which court case are you referring to? cbayer Mar 2013 #11

You didn't view the video, That would be the United States Supreme Court, 2001. nonoyes Mar 2013 #13

Right, they have to open the door the same as they do for any other activities. cbayer Mar 2013 #14

Actually, all other activities do not enjoy that same privilege nonoyes Mar 2013 #18

You are reading it wrong. cbayer Mar 2013 #19

I am quoting from the video from a human rights lawyer nonoyes Mar 2013 #20

Here's another legal strategy. Schools can prohibit abuse & discrimination in their facilities. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #23

That's pretty good SpartanDem Mar 2013 #26

Eric Cernyar, who's an attorney that is working with Dawkins and Stewart, is doing this. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #28

Sounds like a plan IrishAyes Mar 2013 #45

Wrong. Read your own article SpartanDem Mar 2013 #24

Some schools have done that. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #25

Firstly, that is not "my own article" nor is it written by a man. nonoyes Mar 2013 #27

It's a quote in the article you linked to SpartanDem Mar 2013 #29

I think you don't read nor post very accurately nonoyes Mar 2013 #32

One more thing - I can't watch the video because of my location, but I did take the time cbayer Mar 2013 #12

Happy to know you are investigating this. nonoyes Mar 2013 #15

Yes, I know. I posted links to several in my first response to this OP. cbayer Mar 2013 #16

I looked at the video and have several reactions. Thats my opinion Mar 2013 #17

Here's another video - a mini-presentation about the lessons taught in Good News Clubs. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #21

Religion is cool. rrneck Mar 2013 #30

On one t-shirt from last week that made me laugh: backscatter712 Mar 2013 #31

Lots of people walk away from xtianity because it crushes your self-esteem and your soul. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #33

And yet others find that it nurtures them and makes them better people. cbayer Mar 2013 #34

I agree - some of the core teachings of Christianity are toxic, to be blunt. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #35

Original sin is not a concept shared by most mainline protestant denominations. cbayer Mar 2013 #36

It's what I was taught when I was a kid. I grew up going to a mainline Presbyterian church. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #37

When I was a kid, the only people I knew who were cbayer Mar 2013 #38

Why do you always assume skepticscott Mar 2013 #40

The concept of original sin and the sinful nature of man is common in Protestant denominations. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #42

Do you have a list of those that do and those that don't? cbayer Mar 2013 #47

Not on me. (Edit, found some info) backscatter712 Mar 2013 #48

Thanks. I was having trouble finding any list at all. cbayer Mar 2013 #49

I was raised ELCA Lutheran, and original sin is part of its dogma. trotsky Mar 2013 #64

Calvinism still has deep roots in American culture and identity n/t arcane1 Apr 2013 #68

Well, let's see skepticscott Mar 2013 #39

It was in the mainline Protestant church I grew up in. trotsky Mar 2013 #41

I go through this argument all the time on DU. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #43

Wow, I didn't know I was dealing with the definitive word on christianity here. cbayer Mar 2013 #46

I looked up the disciples of christ confession of faith. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #50

I got nothing? Where did you see something about original sin there? cbayer Mar 2013 #51

The part about Jesus being the Savior. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #52

That's not logical at all. There are all kinds of sin and many are taught cbayer Mar 2013 #53

I'm using their logic, not my logic. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #54

Again, you are basing all your assumptions on a limited knowledge of different denominations. cbayer Mar 2013 #55

Citations needed. Back up your statements. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #56

christiananswers.net? cbayer Mar 2013 #57

What's your source? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #58

Bingo! IrishAyes Mar 2013 #62

I was raised similarly to you - respect other's beliefs or lack of beliefs as long cbayer Mar 2013 #63

Original sin is a made-up doctrine.You Will never hear about it in most liberal churches--never! Thats my opinion Mar 2013 #65

You say you were never taught about original sin. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #59

I was taught bible stories as metaphors and lessons for living. cbayer Mar 2013 #60

It's a story! nt Thats my opinion Mar 2013 #66

You're preaching to the choir. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #67

George W. Bush's DOJ worked on behalf of these bastards. Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #61