Religion

ButterflyBlood

(12,644 posts)

49. You're defining transubstantiation as far broader than what I'm referring to

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 02:33 AM

Mar 2013

I'm talking about Eucharistic theology, nothing more. RCC theology is that it becomes the actual body and blood of Christ. I always found this absurd, and couldn't accept anything other than the memorialist view (there is no transformation, it's just a symbol.) For reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorialism

If the Catholic church did allow non-Catholics to take communion at some point, it wasn't in my lifetime and isn't something I expected to happen soon again. Now mind you, I don't think the restriction with their theology is all that unreasonable. However it also means that I too would be excluded (I wouldn't take communion anyway and therefore express belief in something I don't adhere to), so I don't see any reason to retain even a nominal identity or affiliation with the church (this is just one out of a huge laundry list of issues I have mind you, but it is a bit of a lynchpin in it, as something that can't be overcome.)

I should point out that coming from a mixed marriage and with my father's whole side of the family being Lutheran and about half my mother's side not being Catholic either, I never saw myself as part of any greater Catholic community. And even the Catholics in my family weren't particularly adamant about it.

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3 Reasons Pro-Choice and Pro-LGBT Folks Won't Leave the Catholic Church [View all] cbayer Mar 2013 OP

The article, at the end, apples/oranges compares other organized religions to Catholicism saying.... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #1

+10000000000000 cleanhippie Mar 2013 #2

Catholics for Choice - pinto Mar 2013 #3

You might consider posting your thoughtful reply directly to the author. cbayer Mar 2013 #4

I will certainly do so. Moonwalk Mar 2013 #7

Since you posted the article here skepticscott Mar 2013 #20

Great points all around Meshuga Mar 2013 #13

They can't really be described as Pro-LGBT, then. n/t Plantaganet Mar 2013 #5

Why not? Are they not permitted to have individual positions that differ from their church? cbayer Mar 2013 #6

Moonwalk's response addresses this brilliantly. Plantaganet Mar 2013 #22

I strongly disagree. cbayer Mar 2013 #23

No, it's the members who won't leave who are allowing skepticscott Mar 2013 #25

Personal meanings = 0 unless they fit the "right" category. wow! That's opposite the life of Christ, patrice Mar 2013 #42

Why care about reforming the Catholic Church? Why not just be something else? ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #8

Very good questions! backscatter712 Mar 2013 #9

I guess if you are the kind of person that thinks homeless people should be pepper sprayed cbayer Mar 2013 #11

When you can't cruelly defend your position, make an absurd ad hom attack instead. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #12

Only if they're violently assaulting you or threatening to do so. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #14

In the case described, no one was being "violently assaulted". cbayer Mar 2013 #15

He was threatened, and that's enough. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #16

Why pepper spray someone when you can just walk away? cbayer Mar 2013 #17

He tried walking away at first, the guy followed him. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #18

You are reading far more into it than I did, but that's ok. cbayer Mar 2013 #19

The author outlines a number of reasons why one might choose to stay. cbayer Mar 2013 #10

It's not a matter of what "works", and you know that skepticscott Mar 2013 #21

I was quite surprised to learn of people that make a fuss about it, as my family never did ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #34

That's really helpful in terms of understanding why it was not particularly cbayer Mar 2013 #35

Again, your decision is unique to you, but I respect the individual decision cbayer Mar 2013 #27

For some, it isn't about reforming the RC church. It's more about honestly being who you know patrice Mar 2013 #28

Those are all very interesting and commendable personal opinions of yours. trotsky Mar 2013 #29

I'm still a Christian so I accept the Nicene Creed ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #30

Some people have some pretty superstitious notions about what the Transbustantiation is. Vatican II patrice Mar 2013 #31

What you are describing sounds more like memorialism, not the RCC position ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #33

Oh? I lived it with thousands of others. 45 years of my life. Catholic schools, except patrice Mar 2013 #38

You're defining transubstantiation as far broader than what I'm referring to ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #49

I always found Communion to be most powerful on a symbolic level. kwassa Mar 2013 #36

Sharing food: it's all so deeply human & therefore catholic, with a small c. patrice Mar 2013 #39

I think the process of trying to know the divine ... kwassa Mar 2013 #40

Yes it is! I'm glad you said that. This thread is so much more respectful than this kind of issue patrice Mar 2013 #41

It would be great if it was always like this. kwassa Mar 2013 #43

Symbolic communion is memorialism ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #50

This will clarify everything. kwassa Mar 2013 #51

The last bit is what I agree with ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #52

You forgot skepticscott Mar 2013 #53

This is all well and good, but at which point is enough is enough SpartanDem Mar 2013 #24

I agree that at some point you are better leaving, but respect the choice of those cbayer Mar 2013 #26

And at what point skepticscott Mar 2013 #46

Many American grassroots Catholics don't pay that much attention to the pope. And some of those patrice Mar 2013 #32

The pope doesn't own the faith. Nor do the cardinals or bishops. kwassa Mar 2013 #37

There's a quote from Anna Lapp� - Plantaganet Mar 2013 #44

Correct me if I'm wrong, kwassa, Episcopalians ordain women and have a Gay bishop. In my universe, patrice Mar 2013 #45

I agree. The current head of the Episcopal church is a woman. kwassa Mar 2013 #54

Since attendance in Europe has fallen off a cliff, that must mean that only lgbt people Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #47

Number four: Zoeisright Mar 2013 #48