Religion

Meshuga

(6,182 posts)

87. I think we are on the same page

Wed May 8, 2013, 08:47 PM

May 2013

And if the arbiter is god then we are in trouble because the god of the extremists is pretty messed up. It is a very scary thing when the ultimate authority demands violence to settle things.

That is why I would disagree with muxin up thread when he claimed that god is the authority in deciding correct interpretation. Scholarship would be my preferred answer (instead of god) but I am not sure how much more persuasive I would be when an extremist won't accept scholarship over belief.

And yes. I also enjoyed our exchanges because it helped me think through the issue. And I thank you for it!

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Highlight:

An Atheist Muslim's Perspective on the 'Root Causes' of Islamist Jihadism... [View all] Silent3 May 2013 OP

Definitely worth reading the whole thing. trotsky May 2013 #1

really worth reading the whole thing. really really worth it. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #6

His cart is pulling his horse. rug May 2013 #2

i disagree 180 degrees.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #7

No, it applies to many other areas besides religion. rug May 2013 #8

perhaps but it would be foolish to dismiss a stated motive outright.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #9

It's not a matter of argument; it's a matter of circumstance. rug May 2013 #10

The religious motives in terrorist attacks are obvious Meshuga May 2013 #11

i get the need for that distinction.. less need here than on 'atlas shrugs'.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #12

Any idea or belief should be open to criticism Meshuga May 2013 #13

i agree.. tho' some ideas are more susceptible than others. ;) \n Phillip McCleod May 2013 #16

Wrong. Jihadists have an understanding of Islam which is at odds with your snagglepuss May 2013 #30

I'm not surprised you agree with their understanding of Islam. rug May 2013 #31

So who are you to judge that they do not have the correct view of Islam? snagglepuss May 2013 #33

It's internally inconsistent. rug May 2013 #34

Because there is no consistency between Muslims. If there were consistancy then there snagglepuss May 2013 #38

I was referring to the incoherency of the terrorists' ideology. rug May 2013 #44

Their ideology isn't incoherent. It's repugnant but not incoherent. snagglepuss May 2013 #46

It's incoherent, internally inconsistent, self-contradictory. rug May 2013 #47

and mainstream islam is 'coherent'? Phillip McCleod May 2013 #48

For the most part it is. rug May 2013 #49

if they have become talking points it is by accident.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #50

No, they are trotted out here with bemusing regularity. rug May 2013 #51

great minds think alike, i guess \n Phillip McCleod May 2013 #52

Or small minds mimic larger ones. rug May 2013 #53

you imply i 'mimic' someone.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #54

Actually I didn't have you in mind particularly. rug May 2013 #55

maybe you miss them a little bit? Phillip McCleod May 2013 #57

I may in the near future. rug May 2013 #58

same here.. as a rule. ;) \n Phillip McCleod May 2013 #59

religions are internally inconsistent. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #45

Highly recommended. A reminder that religion isn't harmful until you take it seriously. dimbear May 2013 #3

I'm confused. Can someone explain, LiberalAndProud May 2013 #4

If you'd read further... Silent3 May 2013 #5

His perception of extremism in Islam is ridiculous muxin May 2013 #14

What gave him the right? MellowDem May 2013 #15

yeh. everyone cherry picks.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #17

Everyone? I wouldn't be so sure if I were you muxin May 2013 #20

i don't believe you don't cherry pick. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #22

Laws of the prophets? muxin May 2013 #25

what can i say? i assumed when i observed you are a believer.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #43

How many disobedient children have you stoned to death? jeff47 May 2013 #24

??????????? muxin May 2013 #26

it's likely the poster assumed you were christian not muslim. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #41

LOL.. yes I think so too muxin May 2013 #63

uh.. but you cut the quote short.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #66

Yes we have different understanding muxin May 2013 #68

But is he proficient enough to do so? muxin May 2013 #18

I think the poster did not mean to say... Meshuga May 2013 #19

Well said muxin May 2013 #21

that's just your interpretation of scripture.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #23

GOD muxin May 2013 #27

which god? yours or the extremists who interpret.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #36

I'm a believer muxin May 2013 #61

Not sure Muxin was saying that those who "misinterpret" Muslim texts are not true Muslims Meshuga May 2013 #35

well.. seein' as he claims that 'GOD'.. all caps included.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #37

Not sure he claimed others were no true Muslims for having the wrong interpretation Meshuga May 2013 #64

What gave him the right? snagglepuss May 2013 #42

It doesn't matter that extremists have an idiotic understanding of Islam. What matters is that they snagglepuss May 2013 #32

exactly.. there's no basis for comparison. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #39

That can be applied to all philosophies, ideologies, or religion, not just Islam muxin May 2013 #62

Not all philosophies and ideologies have so much, er, let's generously call it "ambiguous"... Silent3 May 2013 #65

I'm not trying to make anyone believe in my interpretation muxin May 2013 #69

Whether you're trying to make anyone believe your interpretation is besides the point Silent3 May 2013 #70

I'm a believer and you're not, and that's that muxin May 2013 #71

Isn't that the conundrum? LiberalAndProud May 2013 #72

Who says it needs to be a beauty contest? Meshuga May 2013 #74

Where does tolerance end and empowering begin? LiberalAndProud May 2013 #75

Not sure what you mean Meshuga May 2013 #76

So, you are saying that believing any given dogma does not necessarily lead to overt violence. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #79

That is not what I am saying Meshuga May 2013 #81

I think I understand, and I think we probably agree on this LiberalAndProud May 2013 #82

I think we are on the same page Meshuga May 2013 #87

+1000! Phillip McCleod May 2013 #88

You don't see my point muxin May 2013 #77

Can you point me to where Rizvi claims that Jihadism represents Islam's best practice? LiberalAndProud May 2013 #80

Look at my first post muxin May 2013 #83

Because you have somehow likened his argument to Sam Harris', LiberalAndProud May 2013 #84

Of course, don't you think so? muxin May 2013 #85

No, I don't. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #86

I don't deny that, it's a fact muxin May 2013 #91

Of course it goes without saying that not all religious people are violent. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #92

I think I already explained that in my first post - #14 muxin May 2013 #93

This is interesting. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #94

My only initial comment on the OP article was... Silent3 May 2013 #73

So you don't agree but you share it anyway? muxin May 2013 #78

i think you assume nonbelievers have no experience with belief. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #89

Is your god the same god that Fred Phelps believes in? cleanhippie May 2013 #90

The poster's profile says he is from Indonesia Shadrach May 2013 #95

You've probably seen a set of books called the Interpreters' Bible, which blows the dimbear May 2013 #28

"criticism of religion isn't a demonstration of bigotry but a struggle against it." snagglepuss May 2013 #29

i love that line.. seen it making the rounds for a few years now.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #40

k/r Dawson Leery May 2013 #56

Article title turns me off with the oxymoron "Atheist Muslim" ButterflyBlood May 2013 #60

I had the same reaction. The headline was dischordant and distracting. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #67