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The two big things I think religion provides that secularism does not. [View all]
I think that there are two big things that religion provides to its followers that secularism does not.
The first of those things is an answer to "why is it in my self-interest to act ethically?", and the second is a focus for community.
There is an obvious answer to "why should I act ethically?" that does not require resort to the supernatural. "Should" is an ambiguous word; "you should do X" means either "it would be ethical for you to do X" or "it would be to your advantage to do X". So one sense of "why should I act ethically" is a tautology - "why is it ethical for me to act ethically?". There are lots of sensible secular derivations of ethics and psychological or philosophical answers to that.
What there *aren't*, and can't be, are any non-religious answers to the question "why is it in my interest to act ethically?". As an atheist, I have to accept that sometimes doing the right thing is not going to be rewarded. I've heard Richard Dawkins argue that this means that only atheists are genuinely capable of ethical behaviour - for the religious it's just a form of deferred self-interested. I'm not sure I buy that, but it's an interesting line of argument. But, either way, if I'm trying to persuade someone to do the right thing, most religions will provide a very compelling and simple answer as to why it's in their interest to do so, whereas as an atheist I can't say more than "because it's the right thing to do".
Whether that translates into a measurable difference in behaviour is hotly controversial, of course - I've seen evidence presented both ways, and I would recommend essentially dismissing out of hand anyone who claims confidence either way, especially if they're doing so on the basis of a single study rather than a literature review. But if I had to lay a pound at even odds, I'd guess that it would, albeit probably only a small one. But even if it doesn't, providing a simple answer to an otherwise unanswerable philosophical conundrum is not a small thing.
The second thing is a focus for communities.
This is only a weak absence, not a strong one like the other - atheism doesn't in any way preclude other things gluing communities together and providing a focus for the social life of a village, but it doesn't do so itself, and again religion does.
I think it probably is true that in many places the sense of local community has been declining massively over the past century or so, and that that probably has negative consequences. The main culprit, in my view, is not social change but technological. In the past I had two choices: socialise with the people around me, or be a hermit. Nowadays, thanks to cars, phones and the internet, I can maintain close friendships with people who live many hours drive away.
That's a good thing - it means I can choose my friends based on shared interests and mutual affection, rather than geographical enforcement - but I think there probably has been a price to be paid, albeit one well worth paying, in the decline of local community as a part of people's lives. I barely know any of my neighbours, and I don't think I'm unusual. Possibly more seriously, because I've made all my friends through my interests (which is great, don't get me wrong) I don't have any close friends who aren't middle-class intellectuals interested in at least one of folk-dancing, roleplaying or mathematics, and I'm acutely conscious that that narrows my horizons.
Religious ceremonies go some way to mitigating that - people from all walks of life gather together once a week and at least attempt to simulate goodwill towards one another. There are some humanist societies who attempt to do the same, but they'll never be able to attract enough people from any one area. A secular society is like a club for people who don't play snooker - the only possible reason you might attend one is if almost everyone else does play snooker and you feel pressured by that, and if that's the case it clearly can't be the basis for a local community.
There are plenty of good non-religious (as opposed to overtly irreligious) bases for community gathering - local fetes, town halls and the like. I hope that if religion continues to decline here in the UK we'll see a rise in them, filling the gap left by things like Sunday church. But so far, it doesn't seem to be happening.
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The two big things I think religion provides that secularism does not. [View all]
Donald Ian Rankin
May 2013
OP
It is interesting you only consider the "positive" things that you believe religion brings,
trotsky
May 2013
#1
I believe religion brings many negative things, which are more than adequately discussed elsewhere.
Donald Ian Rankin
May 2013
#3
JMHO, but I think most of the religious people who post on DU avoid this group like the plague.
cbayer
May 2013
#14
I believe the relevant saying here is "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye". N.T.
Donald Ian Rankin
May 2013
#70
How utterly insulting to condemn my post without bothering to read it.
Donald Ian Rankin
May 2013
#6
You think it's rare for an atheist to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do?
Iggo
May 2013
#77
If I had said that, rather than saying exactly the reverse, I would have been wrong.
Donald Ian Rankin
May 2013
#11
i don't know that "demand" is the right word. most modern religions HAVE moral codes
unblock
May 2013
#16
many modern religions don't have language that strong, certainly not in practice.
unblock
May 2013
#26
It is obviously not "moral behavior" that gets one damned for eternity.
Warren Stupidity
May 2013
#39
Oh, and your assumption is that without religion people would eat their babies.
Warren Stupidity
May 2013
#22
i disagree that religion "provides" a moral code. it claims a moral code as its own.
unblock
May 2013
#24
The answer to 'why behave ethically' might turn out to be 'because it benefits you directly'.
Bluenorthwest
May 2013
#34
If an atheist desires living in an ethical world, then that atheist has a really good, secular
ZombieHorde
May 2013
#36
I'm intrigued by questions of what sociological and psychological roles religion plays
LiberalAndProud
May 2013
#58
As to your first point, that's an argument that demonstrates the ethical superiority...
Humanist_Activist
May 2013
#68