Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Jim__

(15,180 posts)
38. The watchmaker argument is analogical, his argument is not.
Wed May 22, 2013, 11:36 AM
May 2013

Therefore, his argument is not the watchmaker argument.

No, I don't agree with him. I'm saying that because we disagree with someone, doesn't mean that he is failing mentally.

According to the interview, it was a 20 year migration on his part. So, when people claim that he changed because others were taking advantage of him in his old age, they are claiming that Flew was failing in his 60s. Since the interview was given when he was in his 80s, that's a hard claim to accept.

Here's his basic argument about the need for an intelligent being to explain life:

Antony Flew, who spent most of his life as an atheist, converted to deism late in life because of the anthropic principle.[48] He concluded that the fine-tuning of the universe was too precise to be the result of chance, so accepted the existence of God. He said that his commitment to "go where the evidence leads" meant that he ended up accepting the existence of God.[49] Flew proposed the view, held earlier by Fred Hoyle, that the universe is too young for life to have developed purely by chance and that, therefore, an intelligent being must exist which was involved in designing the conditions required for life to evolve.[48]


That's not the watchmaker argument.

My point is quite simple. We can disagree with someone's argument without assuming that they are mentally failing. To me, it makes much more sense to engage with an argument than to merely attack and ridicule the person making the argument.

Here's a simple question, at the time of the earth's formation, what was the probability that life would evolve? Now, lots of people can throw down answers to that; but how many can cite evidence to support their answers? Was the probability closer to 98% or 0.001%? And what do you base your answer on? Note, it is not a valid probabilistic argument to claim that life evolved therefore the probability was 1. As far as I know, no one knows the answer, or even which probability is closer. If my understanding is correct, then there is no basis for dismissing arguments about the origin of life that don't conflict with the evidence merely because we disagree with the conclusions.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Actual WMFA during that period: Bertrand Russell. dimbear May 2013 #1
I am not surprised by the use of "notorious" here. longship May 2013 #2
That's a very good point I hadn't considered. The headline works perfectly well without it. rug May 2013 #3
"Noted" would work. nt longship May 2013 #4
Argh, I just put in "famous' but "noted" is more precise. rug May 2013 #6
Another post with 18 edits... longship May 2013 #7
THANK you! (nt) LostOne4Ever May 2013 #18
Interesting, and not very surprising. Starboard Tack May 2013 #5
Apparently DNA was one of his intellectual turning points. rug May 2013 #9
Bad arguments are bad Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #14
So another idiot skepticscott May 2013 #8
He is an idiot because he believes now? hrmjustin May 2013 #13
No. He's an idiot because the argument from design is patently stupid. Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #20
Exactly...and Flew knows that perfectly well skepticscott May 2013 #24
"Some critics suggested Flew's mental capacity had declined ..." Jim__ May 2013 #10
Except he fell for the watchmaker argument. Goblinmonger May 2013 #21
He did not "fall for the watchmaker argument." Jim__ May 2013 #22
Uh....that IS the watchmaker argument, dude skepticscott May 2013 #25
No, actually it isn't. Jim__ May 2013 #33
It happens to be both skepticscott May 2013 #34
If you're claiming that Flew is making an analogical argument, please point to the analogy. Jim__ May 2013 #35
The watchmaker argument is very simple skepticscott May 2013 #39
I don't even know where to start Goblinmonger May 2013 #36
There is a vast difference between stating the earth was created as literally described in the Bible rug May 2013 #37
The watchmaker argument is analogical, his argument is not. Jim__ May 2013 #38
So, he progressed to deism. LiberalAndProud May 2013 #11
Not really kwassa May 2013 #23
the argument from complexity for the existence of an 'intelligent source'.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #12
The Exploitation of Anthony Flew dimbear May 2013 #15
From the link SecularMotion May 2013 #17
This! LostOne4Ever May 2013 #19
He sounded positively addled. rug May 2013 #30
... He thought he saw a argument that proved he was the Pope. He looked again and found it was struggle4progress May 2013 #16
I agree with him on the complexity argument goldent May 2013 #26
Only 60 years? exboyfil May 2013 #28
Well I guess artificial intelligence has been studied more than 60 years goldent May 2013 #29
I am not an atheist but I think that it exboyfil May 2013 #27
what did he write? sigmasix May 2013 #31
Quite a bit. rug May 2013 #32
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»How the World's Most Note...»Reply #38