if that is true then undoubtedly we northern europeans still go to ragnarok or the like. (Reply #50)

In the discussion thread: Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption [View all]

Tue May 28, 2013, 09:24 PM

50. if that is true then undoubtedly we northern europeans still go to ragnarok or the like.

if what you way is true, then there can be no change from one age to the next about the 'heaven' or 'sheol' or 'hades' what-have-you. the heaven/hell dualism is particularly gnostic in the sort of big-G Gnostic sense of the word, and is what has led scholars of early christian history to conclude that there was a great deal of syncretism before the nicean councils. certainly that type of dualism is entirely absent in the torah's concept of the 'afterlife'.. if indeed it can be called that.

in short, either there is a heaven, or just hades, or just sheol, or just the ancient egyptian afterlife, etc.. there are beliefs far and away more ancient and compelling than 'heaven'.

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64 replies	Author	Time	Post
Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption [View all]	SecularMotion	May 2013	OP
I don't think he was lecturing the atheists when he said that ....	MADem	May 2013	#1
I agree but I don't think others in the Vatican liked it.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#2
Well he's the head Mitre-chapeau in charge, so they're just gonna have to dig on it!	MADem	May 2013	#4
JP the first dies the day I was born. He died about the time I was born.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#5
Time for a bit of reincarnation woo, if you believe that sort of thing! nt	MADem	May 2013	#6
That is what my friends at church say.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#7
what do they say?	DesertFlower	May 2013	#8
That I am John Paul the first reincarnated.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#9
Damn shame George and Ringo isn't in there with ya.	Spitfire of ATJ	May 2013	#11
Now that would be a great personality!	hrmjustin	May 2013	#12
I share a birthday with Adolphs death day.	SCVDem	May 2013	#19
do you think you are?	DesertFlower	May 2013	#24
No I don't, but it is interesting that I was born almost at the moment he died.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#25
i believe in reincarnation. i didn't think	DesertFlower	May 2013	#26
They said it in jest and I am Episcopalian.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#27
i think it was in the 1400s. i'm a former	DesertFlower	May 2013	#28
I think they got rid of limbo! As to reincarnation it could have been the cathars!	hrmjustin	May 2013	#29
they changed so many rules. i remember it was a mortal sin	DesertFlower	May 2013	#36
The Church must speak to every generation. Unfortunately many churvhes have issues doing	hrmjustin	May 2013	#45
In my mind there's a big difference between Laws of the church and God's laws	No Vested Interest	May 2013	#61
lol. a little off the subject but another	DesertFlower	May 2013	#64
I see a strong parallel between Pope Francis and President Obama	BlueStreak	May 2013	#30
In my opinion believers and non-believers go to the same place when we die.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#31
Therein lies the problem when we create gods in our own image	BlueStreak	May 2013	#33
Well we will find out sooner or later.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#34
Well actually, we won't. And that's how religions are able to keep their con going.	BlueStreak	May 2013	#35
if that is true then undoubtedly we northern europeans still go to ragnarok or the like.	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#50
Yeah but I like a heaven with an open bar better.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#51
that'd be valhalla, then.	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#53
My idea of heaven is a big bruch with neverending booze and food.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#54
that's valhalla. it just is.	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#56
Looks fun. Ok valhala it is!	hrmjustin	May 2013	#57
the norse religion's idea of the 'end of the world' was better too..	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#58
So you can live as you want without having to worry about the rules.	hrmjustin	May 2013	#59
i dont know about that..	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#63
Whether Rosch does or does not is immaterial, as long as he understands what the Pope is saying.	rug	May 2013	#3
Ummm, that "uninformed statement"...	gcomeau	May 2013	#38
Then it should be a small matter to cite the chapter and verse.	rug	May 2013	#41
Romans 3: 9-20	gcomeau	May 2013	#42
I did. Here's your opportunity to read the whole thing.	rug	May 2013	#43
Read it. Many times.	gcomeau	May 2013	#46
yeh but it's all how you interpret ..	Phillip McCleod	May 2013	#55
Meh	Tien1985	May 2013	#10
Something too obviuos	coldbeer	May 2013	#13
Are you saying the classic monks bent over scribing away were the first nerds?	Spitfire of ATJ	May 2013	#14
Why do people think that male nerds and geeks are gay?	coldbeer	May 2013	#40
"So...what's with this stereotype?"	Spitfire of ATJ	May 2013	#44
Religion and Science are Both Ways....	Billsmile	May 2013	#15
No, sorry...they are not	skepticscott	May 2013	#20
Not even close.	gcomeau	May 2013	#39
Click-bait fake controvery. Author deliberately took the Pope out of context to draw views.	TekGryphon	May 2013	#16
I don't want to go to heaven, even if it existed. I didn't hang with the "saints" in life, I'll	alfredo	May 2013	#17
Pope Frankie is not shaking up the RC world	RVN VET	May 2013	#18
I donno why people always try to make it more then what it is.	Lobo27	May 2013	#21
We know what he thinks of atheists. What does he think of the child rapists and their enablers	stopbush	May 2013	#22
Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption...	BillyRibs	May 2013	#23
Amen....;) nt	Purplehazed	May 2013	#32
I doubt Pope Francis spends much time reading HuffPo, so if Rosch wants to tell him something	struggle4progress	May 2013	#37
I doubt atheists spend much time listening to the Pope's sermons, so...	Act_of_Reparation	May 2013	#47
I doubt the Pope was expecting atheists to listen to his talk: he seems to have addressed	struggle4progress	May 2013	#48
Nonsense	Act_of_Reparation	May 2013	#60
... The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily	struggle4progress	May 2013	#62
I don't need to be redeemed...	uriel1972	May 2013	#49
This must be part of being a good beard for the Ratz.	Walk away	May 2013	#52

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