Religion

Deep13

(39,157 posts)

106. The truth isn't in anyone's heart...

Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:31 PM

Jun 2013

...it's in the evidence. If you are thinking with your heart then you are getting confirmation bias, not the truth. The difference between medieval thinking and modern thinking is that medieval thinking accepts multiple realities. Contrary conditions can be true at the same time. Modern thinking rejects this. Every description of reality must have a unitary, logically consistent solution.

The upshot is that if god exists, he exists for everyone and only has one nature. If god depends on how people imagine him, then he's not real and only exists in imagination. Real things exist independently from our thoughts.

The idea that humanity is damned and can only be redeemed by the vicarious suffering of an innocent person is the central premise of Christianity. If they are getting all the touchy feelly stuff you mention, but not the damnation, then they missing the central message of the NT.

As someone skeptical of all dogma, I think it is extremely unlikely that I will ever kill anyone. If I accepted a dogma that claimed that humans would burn in hell unless they believed X, then coercing conversions would be far less of an evil than letting people suffer forever.

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I visit this group quite a bit- [View all] digonswine May 2013 OP

How to read the Bible. rug May 2013 #1

That is not terribly helpful- digonswine May 2013 #2

And what, pray tell skepticscott May 2013 #5

That is for them to figure out- digonswine May 2013 #14

God in the end makes that call. hrmjustin May 2013 #43

Well, from the perspective of a Christian skepticscott Jun 2013 #62

But if a person is acting contrary to what Christ taught and claims to be a Christian, pointing that hrmjustin Jun 2013 #72

Every Christian acts contrary to what the Bible says skepticscott Jun 2013 #73

You are correct that there are no true Christians, but we still need to practice what we preach. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #74

Please don't put words in my mouth skepticscott Jun 2013 #75

Sorry to put wrds in your mouth and I would never say that last line you posted and I do not know hrmjustin Jun 2013 #76

You said skepticscott Jun 2013 #86

No I am not clear how you single out catholics? hrmjustin Jun 2013 #87

The question is skepticscott Jun 2013 #88

I make no judgements on denominations. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #89

It tells me skepticscott Jun 2013 #90

LOl ok SKeptiscott! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #91

If they Believe in the teachings Jesus LostOne4Ever May 2013 #6

You need to listen to the other Christians- digonswine May 2013 #11

Anyone who claim Catholics are not true Christian LostOne4Ever May 2013 #19

You clearly get it digonswine May 2013 #23

wow that is rather stunning. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #64

Yep LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #66

You believe that "that Catholics are not true Christians"? rug May 2013 #7

No- digonswine May 2013 #9

Well, as far as the OP is concerned, the best I can do is point you here. rug May 2013 #15

sounds like you just described searching for the right justifications.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #21

That's an interesting observation. rug May 2013 #25

in my edit downthread.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #31

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. rug May 2013 #32

agreed. we are in general rationalizing not rational beings.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #38

Live long and prosper. rug May 2013 #39

Peace. And long life. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #40

Please tell me- digonswine May 2013 #28

In what regard, Charley? rug May 2013 #29

Many people miss this. It's about living the faith not not just Leontius Jun 2013 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin May 2013 #36

And you won't skepticscott May 2013 #3

I thought I would try- digonswine May 2013 #8

Well, this is an exceeding telling post. cbayer May 2013 #12

I see a fruitless result digonswine May 2013 #22

What reaction is that? cbayer May 2013 #26

and thank you for so doing. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #24

Fruitless results huh! hrmjustin May 2013 #27

Do you find problems with the scholarship in Classics? Bad Thoughts May 2013 #41

Geez, thanks for the spoiler. rug May 2013 #42

Caesar didn't say "Et tu, Brute?" Bad Thoughts May 2013 #45

What I heard was, he said it in Greek, the languabge of the Senate. rug May 2013 #47

Hard to imagine Strom Thurmond speaking Greek. eom. Bad Thoughts May 2013 #52

Conscience and intelligence can be good companions when one reads struggle4progress May 2013 #4

Are there no books in your life where you take some of the information cbayer May 2013 #10

I do all of those things- digonswine May 2013 #13

Many, if not most, people believe that it is a book cbayer May 2013 #16

Good point- digonswine May 2013 #20

So you approach your life and written material with some cbayer May 2013 #30

No- digonswine Jun 2013 #63

Great response here and it gives me joy to read it. cbayer Jun 2013 #67

Those books do not purport to be the word of God. nt Deep13 May 2013 #44

Only some believers would say that the entire bible is the "word of god". cbayer May 2013 #50

That's the point of the OP's squestion. Deep13 May 2013 #51

What difference does it make? cbayer Jun 2013 #58

Are you suggesting that whether or not God is real,... Deep13 Jun 2013 #60

It makes no difference to me personally. How about you? cbayer Jun 2013 #68

1. I care about the truth. Deep13 Jun 2013 #95

The truth is something you have to find in your own heart. I agree with cbayer's comments. MissMarple Jun 2013 #96

What you dismiss as "window dressing" skepticscott Jun 2013 #97

You can believe what ever you want and for what ever reason. MissMarple Jun 2013 #103

The truth isn't in anyone's heart... Deep13 Jun 2013 #106

Heart, soul, mind, the conscious self... MissMarple Jun 2013 #107

As a believing Episcopalian/Anglican I use the three legged stool for my faith. hrmjustin May 2013 #17

try adding expereience nt Thats my opinion Jun 2013 #80

I see what you are saying. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #81

I don't read the Bible like I would a math book... goldent May 2013 #18

There are many contradictions and absurdities in the Bible. Manifestor_of_Light May 2013 #33

The bible is a book of it's times. That is how it should be read. hrmjustin May 2013 #46

Written by ignorant, superstitious Bronze Age nomads. Manifestor_of_Light May 2013 #48

I am more into the stuff about Jesus. hrmjustin May 2013 #49

Yes. Manifestor_of_Light May 2013 #54

Well we will just have to agree to disagree on the fact he existed. hrmjustin May 2013 #55

So you fact-check anything you read there? okasha Jun 2013 #94

that stuff was written by iron age people, somewhat less ignorant, and equally superstitious. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #65

Have you got anything to back up your assertion about the New Testament being molded in the Leontius Jun 2013 #82

Are you completely ignorant of the history of the early church? Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #85

I know the history of the early Church quite well, better than you evidently Leontius Jun 2013 #98

Google council of nicea Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #104

Council of Nicea Leontius Jun 2013 #109

Iron Age, actually. Deep13 May 2013 #53

No offense, but it only pretends to stem from the Bronze Age. In fact, nothing in the Bible dimbear May 2013 #56

Even the Prophecies Bad Thoughts May 2013 #57

Judge them by the fruits of their labors, the success of their work. dimbear Jun 2013 #61

Wrong. okasha Jun 2013 #92

.... Dawson Leery May 2013 #34

IME, you won't get a straight answer from most believers here.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #35

Perhaps you could elaborate, because this seems to be an inherently cbayer May 2013 #37

i'd rather stay on topic.. Phillip McCleod Jun 2013 #70

Oh, ok. Your response didn't seem particularly on topic, though. cbayer Jun 2013 #71

In the Old Testament, the first books are the laws of the early Jewish people JDPriestly Jun 2013 #59

Thoughtful response goldent Jun 2013 #69

I tend to focus on what touches me personally or in a broader world view sense. pinto Jun 2013 #77

I had to put that one down- digonswine Jun 2013 #78

You raise a legitimate question. Thats my opinion Jun 2013 #83

Well said! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #84

You mean the "modern scholarship" skepticscott Jun 2013 #93

I am curious why you seem to single out Christians. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #99

Certainly others do it, too. digonswine Jun 2013 #100

Ok, sorry to sound accusatory! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #101

Ain't nuttin' digonswine Jun 2013 #102

Well, maybe cultural habit, insularity, superstition, naivete, and fear play their parts. MissMarple Jun 2013 #105

It depends on if you believe in communion with God or not el_bryanto Jun 2013 #108