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cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
229. I hold no ill will or judgment to those who believe in god or believe there is no god either...
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 10:33 AM
Jun 2013

To say that those of us that want to distinguish ourselves as being agnostic and questioning whether we know anything of what the afterlife (if there is one or not) holds for us from those who believe there is no such thing, or those who believe that is structured a certain way, is putting us in to a box that I don't think fits our beliefs.

I'm quite comfortable acknowledging that the person next to me is an atheist and feels confident of their own personal feelings beliefs of not having a god and consider them a valuable part of society and having valuable perspectives to look at.

I feel the same towards those who are solidly Christian in their beliefs, and use its structure of beliefs to help guide them spiritually in making a good life better for themselves and others around them too. Or for that matter, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, etc.

But I don't want them projecting their beliefs of atheism (the need to say there is no god), or another religion (the need to say to me I need to accept Christ) on to me. That I have a problem with. I like to consider myself an open book, until I have a personal revelation one way or the other if that comes at some point. I think it is a highly personal thing, that is shaped by our lives we live in. I hear others, and at some point might accept someone else's beliefs if it at some point I see the reality of those beliefs. But I haven't to this point, and value that I'm open to all different points of view. It allows me to look at all of the common belief systems and atheist beliefs and those values people have when having such beliefs, and seeing what I see as common good personal moral values of all of them, and that structures my beliefs that there MIGHT Be something out there that is god like that influences all of those different religious beliefs in the same way to help society be good to each other.

I don't believe myself "superior" as an agnostic to others, and am not trying to dismiss everyone else, that some here say that agnostics are trying to do. I just want to have my own space for my own beliefs or my own questioning of my own beliefs and not to be judged or lumped in to some other belief category that I don't really belong to. It's just a personal thing. Nothing more! I think, though don't know, that I probably share the same viewpoint with a lot of agnostics out there.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Because no one CAN know! elleng May 2013 #1
Another asinine and bankrupt "defense" skepticscott May 2013 #2
Are you sure? rug May 2013 #3
Maybe it's an honest opinion. hrmjustin May 2013 #9
Honesty doesn't validate an opinion Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #36
Your definition of agnostic isn't very useful skepticscott May 2013 #49
I'm not trying to establish a definition of agnostic... Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #67
Maybe the response to it is just the usual okasha May 2013 #81
You noticed that as well. hrmjustin May 2013 #82
Hard not to. okasha May 2013 #84
As noted, this is not about the supression skepticscott May 2013 #86
Well, that one is ridiculous. enki23 Jun 2013 #231
Why is there anything rather than nothing? longship May 2013 #24
Can you cite the source for that Feynman quote and provide some context? Jim__ May 2013 #43
How is "nothing" unstable? goldent May 2013 #45
Well, I am not up on my quantum field theory. longship May 2013 #58
There are always virtual particles popping in and out of existence. Megalo_Man May 2013 #133
Absolutely, positively Brainstormy May 2013 #128
Silly rhetorical argument. longship May 2013 #4
Well stated. rug May 2013 #5
Thanks, rug. Much appreciated. nt longship May 2013 #23
Great Post! LostOne4Ever May 2013 #42
if you are seeking absolute certainty, DeadEyeDyck May 2013 #60
Speak for yourself. longship May 2013 #89
Well said Brainstormy May 2013 #129
With my blessings, so to speak. ;) nt longship May 2013 #141
Although few atheists have the intellectual honesty to admit it, Big Blue Marble May 2013 #6
Many atheists would consider your characterization as insulting. longship May 2013 #7
I understand that many atheists do have a chip on their shoulder. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #8
That, too, might be considered insulting. longship May 2013 #10
obligatory xkcd pokerfan May 2013 #14
Thanks. That says it all. nt longship May 2013 #17
You'll find it just as common on this site, if not more so skepticscott May 2013 #12
I agree with you completely. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #15
Atheism does not, and cannot, imply certainty. longship May 2013 #19
Negitives can be proven if the situation is very limited and specific. ZombieHorde May 2013 #35
zero is not negative. defacto7 Jun 2013 #176
That is just silly to this context. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #178
When I say you cannot prove a negative to someone defacto7 Jun 2013 #180
That has nothing to do with this subject. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #184
I can explain it to you... but I'm pretty sure you don't want an explanation. defacto7 Jun 2013 #185
Your psychic powers are so strong. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #192
I don't think I hold superior views to no one! hrmjustin May 2013 #26
So you think that the views skepticscott May 2013 #47
That is not what I said. You have an amazing way of twisting my words. hrmjustin May 2013 #54
You said that you don't think your views are superior to anyone else's skepticscott May 2013 #124
I am sorry Skeptiscott for what I said and I guess you are right in the end. hrmjustin May 2013 #125
And I know you also favor skepticscott May 2013 #127
Yes I do think that my inclusive view of things is superior to bigotry. hrmjustin May 2013 #134
Your post #6 was not subtle in its insults muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #48
I hold no ill will or judgment to those who believe in god or believe there is no god either... cascadiance Jun 2013 #229
Well said. Not wanting to be judged or lumped is clearly your right. cbayer Jun 2013 #232
And those that don't try to lump me in a category are far more apt to shape my beliefs than others.. cascadiance Jun 2013 #236
Agree. It is much easier to listen to the viewpoint of those that don't cbayer Jun 2013 #242
Definitions LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #240
I really don't believe that religious belief is *binary*... cascadiance Jun 2013 #241
No insult taken, and I hope that you did not take my previous post as an insult either. LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #245
oh screw you ... Trajan May 2013 #77
Equally, I reject your assine and vacuous comments. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #110
Wow! You sure do know a lot about atheists... cynatnite Jun 2013 #152
Wow! Your sarcasm is so transparent. Big Blue Marble Jun 2013 #163
Yes, I was sarcastic, but I was serious in my questions... cynatnite Jun 2013 #166
You can only give me an expert opinion on what being an atheist means to you. Big Blue Marble Jun 2013 #168
There you go again...making assumptions... cynatnite Jun 2013 #169
I am relieved that you have a sense of humor after all. Big Blue Marble Jun 2013 #170
I copy and pasted your assumptions about atheists...or did you forget? cynatnite Jun 2013 #171
At risk of being really insulting, I am beginning to question your reading comprehension. Big Blue Marble Jun 2013 #172
Gotcha...you were playing. Have a nice night. n/t cynatnite Jun 2013 #173
Night, night to you as well. Big Blue Marble Jun 2013 #174
What does this mean? Gore1FL Jun 2013 #218
Insulting is optional. It is *definitely* self-aggrandizing and ignorant. enki23 Jun 2013 #238
And you know this...how? skepticscott May 2013 #11
And you might never know what you missed. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #13
Wow! Just wow! longship May 2013 #20
Have you really missed all the insulting comments that atheists have made in this forum alone? N/T Big Blue Marble May 2013 #25
Not by this atheist. longship May 2013 #32
Have I ever insulted you? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #41
No, you have never insulted me. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #85
"Wallowing" is the best word I can come up with skepticscott May 2013 #21
Uncertainty is the beginning of wisdom not ignorance. Big Blue Marble May 2013 #27
I like the word, provisional in this context. longship May 2013 #33
The operative word being "beginning" skepticscott May 2013 #44
How many theories, beliefs, and ideas that were advanced a century ago Big Blue Marble May 2013 #79
If he had any true wisdom skepticscott May 2013 #87
What exactly is this "truth" that you are so confident exists? Big Blue Marble May 2013 #88
The "truth" that is understood well enough skepticscott May 2013 #109
Ask an agnostic if they believe in a god, there answer determines if they are a theist or atheist... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #16
If I believed in god, how could I be an agnostic? Big Blue Marble May 2013 #18
If you don't believe in any gods, you're an atheist. skepticscott May 2013 #22
By understanding what " agnostic" means. gcomeau May 2013 #31
Because belief is separate from knowledge... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #34
Knowledge is not the same as belief LostOne4Ever May 2013 #39
Agnostic theism pokerfan May 2013 #90
How do you label those that answer that they don't know or that they don't care? cbayer May 2013 #53
As people who are avoiding the question. Humanist_Activist May 2013 #78
I disagree with you. They are just giving answers that you don't agree with. cbayer May 2013 #92
If I ask you how the weather is like in your area... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #95
What if I say I am sitting inside a windowless room and cbayer May 2013 #96
Can you cordon yourself off from your own beliefs... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #97
Must I have a belief or lack thereof on every matter? cbayer May 2013 #98
No, you aren't an agnostic on Israel/Palestine, you take no position. Humanist_Activist May 2013 #99
What if I also take no position on god? cbayer May 2013 #100
What reputable sources? And in what way does neutrality equal unknowable? n/t Humanist_Activist May 2013 #101
Because if a question can not be answered, then taking a neutral position cbayer May 2013 #102
Dictionaries. I would not say that neutrality necessarily equals cbayer May 2013 #103
OK, I looked at Dictionary.com Humanist_Activist May 2013 #104
I am not sure what that means either, but I see it used more and more frequently. cbayer May 2013 #105
Even that meaning you listed makes no sense, words and terms such as... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #108
You do realize.. gcomeau May 2013 #30
That is a very narrow view. There are many, myself included, who do consider cbayer May 2013 #55
No, it's the rational view gcomeau May 2013 #56
I disagree with you. cbayer May 2013 #59
But provide no basis for doing so. gcomeau May 2013 #62
And if I answer "i don't know and I don't really care", which box would you put me in? cbayer May 2013 #65
One of two boxes... gcomeau May 2013 #69
Lol. If you think you have the answer, good for you. cbayer May 2013 #72
Stop dodging. gcomeau May 2013 #74
An agnostic does not know whether a god or god exists. cbayer May 2013 #75
Yep, thought so. You're *still* not listening. gcomeau May 2013 #76
Wow. Could you be more insulting? cbayer May 2013 #91
Yes. I could ignore everything you say... gcomeau May 2013 #106
Her answer was in there, I think. eomer May 2013 #121
If that was true gcomeau May 2013 #139
There is only the rule if one is playing teams. cbayer May 2013 #140
Being confident and honest enough to say "I don't know" is IMO a wonderful and valuable trait. eomer Jun 2013 #200
Thanks, eomer. cbayer Jun 2013 #202
For fuck's sake. gcomeau Jun 2013 #244
Sleep well? cbayer Jun 2013 #246
If you have no interest in actual discussion... gcomeau Jun 2013 #247
Oxford Dictionaries disagrees with you. eomer May 2013 #113
No it doesn't. gcomeau May 2013 #114
Here's the definition from a 1969 hard-bound American Heritage Dictionary I had handy: eomer May 2013 #115
Really missing the point. gcomeau May 2013 #118
I don't know in this case that there was previously a more exacting definition. eomer May 2013 #123
ok... not clearer. Obviously. gcomeau May 2013 #132
But is it binary? eomer May 2013 #135
Spectrum of theistic probability? pokerfan May 2013 #136
Yes, it is. gcomeau May 2013 #138
It's interesting that you think that way. eomer May 2013 #147
What way? Rationally? gcomeau May 2013 #148
Sorry but it is clearly possible to be unsure about it. eomer Jun 2013 #149
It is OBVIOUSLY possible to be unsure about it. gcomeau Jun 2013 #150
Of course I've read all your words; I just find that your approach makes no sense to me. eomer Jun 2013 #154
Good grief, this is not complicated. gcomeau Jun 2013 #158
The answer for some people is neither definitely yes nor definitely no. eomer Jun 2013 #182
See post 62. gcomeau Jun 2013 #194
Lol. Are you really saying that anyone who calls themselves agnostic is mentally ill? cbayer Jun 2013 #203
No. Try actually reading. THEN type an answer. -nt gcomeau Jun 2013 #204
Wow. Are you like this in real life? cbayer Jun 2013 #205
In real life... gcomeau Jun 2013 #206
Why do you think you have a different experience here? cbayer Jun 2013 #207
You nean with you? gcomeau Jun 2013 #208
It is hardly isolated just to me. You seem to have it with a number of people. cbayer Jun 2013 #209
I seem to have it... gcomeau Jun 2013 #210
Well, as a wise and dear colleague once said to me... cbayer Jun 2013 #211
Hah, "everyone"... rich. gcomeau Jun 2013 #226
Or one could see it a different way. cbayer Jun 2013 #227
No, it isn't. gcomeau Jun 2013 #228
You can be as definitive as you want, but that doesn't mean you have the right answer. cbayer Jun 2013 #230
And there's my answer. gcomeau Jun 2013 #233
I guess you win then. cbayer Jun 2013 #234
The persistence of ignorance is not "winning". -nt gcomeau Jun 2013 #235
If a word is used often enough to mean X okasha May 2013 #116
Sigh... gcomeau May 2013 #119
Chuckle. . . . okasha May 2013 #120
83... 93... gcomeau May 2013 #142
What you're saying is that okasha May 2013 #143
No. gcomeau May 2013 #144
See posts 83 & 93. okasha May 2013 #146
For what? gcomeau Jun 2013 #151
Every time this comes up okasha May 2013 #83
Me, too. Very familiar argument. cbayer May 2013 #93
That's a false dictomy... Humanist_Activist May 2013 #94
Here is the difference. Gore1FL Jun 2013 #217
I would come closer to an "animist" than an atheist or an agnostic. gordianot May 2013 #28
Alternative title. gcomeau May 2013 #29
I am an atheist because defacto7 May 2013 #37
Does the author know what the words he is using actually mean? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #38
Question: does he believe in a god? intaglio May 2013 #40
Still a fallacy though, isn't it? DirkGently May 2013 #46
Indeed - if you think there is a cause, outside the universe, for the universe muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #50
Kind of the classic presumption for mythology. DirkGently May 2013 #68
An open mind does not accept any crazy idea just becasue it can't be proved false. bowens43 May 2013 #51
Good article. I am glad to see the case being made for not having cbayer May 2013 #52
There is a possibility of the existence of a male bipod God who looks like us? AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #57
Are there no other concepts of god available? cbayer May 2013 #61
You can either believe in or deny the Christian deity Bad Thoughts May 2013 #63
I think there are many other options. cbayer May 2013 #64
There is *one* other option actually. gcomeau May 2013 #70
No knowing, not ever going to know and not particularly caring either way. cbayer May 2013 #71
Nope, sorry. gcomeau May 2013 #107
I am honored and silenced by being in the presence of someone so much smarter cbayer May 2013 #111
Doesn't require intelligence to understand this. gcomeau May 2013 #112
I know there are many other options. okasha May 2013 #117
That or Alice in Wonderland. cbayer May 2013 #122
Sorry, but it doesn't seem that everyone here allows for a variety of beliefs Bad Thoughts May 2013 #137
Do you disagree with the Christians and Jews who say that there are not? AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #66
I do disagree with them. cbayer May 2013 #73
This guy doesn't have his definitions straight... MellowDem May 2013 #80
That's a rather dogmatic position. rug May 2013 #130
It's not even close to dogmatic. gcomeau Jun 2013 #153
It's the epitome of dogma. rug Jun 2013 #155
Not just dogma, but strident, rigid dogma. Kind of reminds me of... cbayer Jun 2013 #157
Sigh... gcomeau Jun 2013 #159
"I don't know" doesn't determine either category. rug Jun 2013 #160
"I don't know" is an indication they didn't comprehend the question. gcomeau Jun 2013 #161
What's your answer? rug Jun 2013 #162
Yes. gcomeau Jun 2013 #164
Now try it without the qualifier you added. rug Jun 2013 #165
Now try re-reading post 161 gcomeau Jun 2013 #167
I did. Restating the question is not providing an answer. rug Jun 2013 #175
No, explaining how you screwed up the question... gcomeau Jun 2013 #177
I see. You are unable or unwilling to answer a straightforward question. rug Jun 2013 #183
For fuck's sake. gcomeau Jun 2013 #191
Your clear understanding of the simple binary condition of these two concepts defacto7 Jun 2013 #179
I am anti-theist. Dawson Leery May 2013 #126
Ok. rug May 2013 #131
If you consider yourself an Agnostic, do you live your live as if God exists or if he/she/it doesnt? brooklynite May 2013 #145
Are those of us who consider ourselves both agnostic and atheist wrong in some way? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #156
OK, the existence of God is *less* likely than the existence of the Tooth Fairy, then . . . MrModerate Jun 2013 #181
You paint a very clear picture of reality and fiction. defacto7 Jun 2013 #186
"Belief" is evolutionarily advantageous emotional shorthand . . . MrModerate Jun 2013 #189
"we are as of yet unable to comprehensively explain existence" rug Jun 2013 #187
Not inevitable, but highly likely. MrModerate Jun 2013 #188
I think that's a rather hopeful position. rug Jun 2013 #190
"Close enough for engineering purposes" . . . MrModerate Jun 2013 #193
Context. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #195
And even if we ask the something vs nothing question edhopper Jun 2013 #196
Precisely. And that was Hawking's point in his most recent book. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #197
I presume you're addressing the author. rug Jun 2013 #198
Correct. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #199
Baddar is making a simple point: in the face of uncertainty, we can't be certain. Jim__ Jun 2013 #212
I don't think you understood the lecture. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #213
That video is not difficult to understand. There's nothing new in it. Jim__ Jun 2013 #216
"but we do know some plausible ways that it might." AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #219
Krauss doesn't cite any of those plausible ways. Jim__ Jun 2013 #221
I missed where Krauss has reached a conclusion. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #222
A Universe from Nothing: Why there is something rather than nothing by Lawrence Krauss. Jim__ Jun 2013 #223
It's typical advertising, I think. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #224
Atheist SamKnause Jun 2013 #201
I have seen this view a number of times since joining DU goldent Jun 2013 #214
Atheist 2 SamKnause Jun 2013 #215
Deism is pretty close to atheism when you think about it pokerfan Jun 2013 #220
Well, there are moral propositions to consider. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #225
How is it that people are so certain their idea of "absolute nothing" is even possible? enki23 Jun 2013 #237
That said, there's the actual translation of the relevant bits of the article: enki23 Jun 2013 #239
The part that churned by stomach was his justification for reaching that probability... Act_of_Reparation Jun 2013 #243
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Why I'm Not an Atheist: T...»Reply #229