Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Jim__

(15,233 posts)
47. The question of what can be inferred from any correlation is also important.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:28 PM
Jun 2013

From the Brown review:

...

The thing that I found really fascinating in Flynn's lecture was his discussion of what makes for very low IQ scores. It is one of the paradoxes of the Flynn effect that it implies not only that our children will be smarter than we are, but that our recent ancestors were extremely stupid. Extrapolating back to 1900 on the two fastest-improving components of the IQ tests suggests that schoolchildren then would have had a mean IQ of either 50 or 70. "How did Englishmen play cricket in 1900" asked Flynn. "Taking their mean IQ at face value, most of them would need a minder to position them in the field, tell them when to bat, and tell them when the innings was over."

The answer, he says, is that one of the things that IQ tests measure is "post-scientific operational thinking". This is not the same as scientific thinking. But it is thinking about the world in terms of the categories by which science understands it. For instance, if you ask, "What do dogs and rabbits have in common", the post-scientific answer, that we would now regard as evidence of intelligence, is that they are both mammals. The pre-scientific answer is that you use a dog to hunt a rabbit. That's what matters about the two animals, not what class they belong to.

It is that kind of difference in reasoning which accounts for the huge measured IQ differences between urban and rural Brazil, and, of course, the fantastically low IQs measured in African countries.

...


And from wikipedia:

...

Even at the scale of the individual, IQ may not directly cause more disbelief in God. Dr David Hardman of London Metropolitan University says: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief." He adds that other studies do nevertheless correlate IQ with being willing or able to question beliefs.[11]

Researcher Gregory S. Paul's findings suggest that economic development has a closer relationship with religiosity.[14] He argues that once any "nation's population becomes prosperous and secure, for example through economic security and universal health care, much of the population loses interest in seeking the aid and protection of supernatural entities." Other studies have shown that increased wealth is correlated with a decline in religious beliefs.[15][16] Indeed, the majority of the nations that showed a strong relationship between low religiosity and high IQ in the 2008 study were developed nations.[10]

...


Correlation indicates a probable relationship. By itself, it is not a strong indicator of causation.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I love the smell of flamebait in the morning SecularMotion Jun 2013 #1
Inspired by this post, as well as many similar ones: Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #2
A suggestion SecularMotion Jun 2013 #3
Thanks for the suggestion (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #4
Even better idea WovenGems Jun 2013 #71
You forgot another choice: Don't care Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #5
My general assumption is that people who really don't care don't click on the thread. Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #6
However, as I said Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #11
Some of us think it's important skepticscott Jun 2013 #15
I was looking for the same choice. goldent Jun 2013 #60
Yes. Iggo Jun 2013 #7
I think Jimmy Carter was our last actual Christian president... RevStPatrick Jun 2013 #8
Why do you think that? trotsky Jun 2013 #9
The flipside, that actually IS seen on DU... trotsky Jun 2013 #10
You should give more gradations - I have the Soul-o-scope so I know, but most people don't el_bryanto Jun 2013 #12
Would it matter if he was? nt auburngrad82 Jun 2013 #13
Does it really matter what anyone's religious beliefs are? Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #14
To me, it doesn't matter what your beliefs are auburngrad82 Jun 2013 #16
Thank you. whathehell Jun 2013 #31
Unfortunately it's human nature to generalize auburngrad82 Jun 2013 #34
got that right - +1 DrDan Jun 2013 #56
Admittedly anecdotal, but people at work assume I'm Christian because I'm NICE. Still Blue in PDX Jun 2013 #17
This is very, very much a US phenomenon. Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #19
I think he is a faithful Christian. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #18
People that say the Obama is "too smart to believe in invisible sky monsters" cbayer Jun 2013 #20
I agree. It implies those of us who believe are idiots. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #21
There is no correlation between intelligence and religious beliefs, so anyone cbayer Jun 2013 #22
I didn't invent the term "invisible sky monsters", Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #24
No, you just chose to use it. It's offensive to believers. cbayer Jun 2013 #26
Maybe not, but you DID make this claim in your post: trotsky Jun 2013 #27
Correct...He should also bag the stupid, quite bigoted "skymonster" definition of Christianity whathehell Jun 2013 #29
Actually, only one other person has used it once on DU muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #44
Hmmm. My Google seems to work better than yours. Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #50
Ah, Google didn't show up results using the singular muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #53
Another? Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #57
That's one of the "not a good idea to put it this way" posts muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #63
You claimed it was said "frequently." trotsky Jun 2013 #67
Actually there is a correlation. Goblinmonger Jun 2013 #35
You may want to avoid this scientific paper: dimbear Jun 2013 #40
Andrew Brown reviewed that paper. Jim__ Jun 2013 #41
All those IQ comparisons are a little scary, but it's safe to say dimbear Jun 2013 #46
The question of what can be inferred from any correlation is also important. Jim__ Jun 2013 #47
I've no problem with trying to minimize the number, or to explain its causes. dimbear Jun 2013 #49
Why would I want to avoid it? cbayer Jun 2013 #59
Here's one in full as a pdf: dimbear Jun 2013 #61
I think I have read something similar about fundamentalism, but cbayer Jun 2013 #68
As a matter of fact, I do think that papers by Richard Lynn should be avoided! LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #65
In going further I see that this paper is rather infamous. The truth seems to be dimbear Jun 2013 #69
But we do all think fundamentalists are crazy, right? DirkGently Jun 2013 #52
No, I don't think they are crazy. I just think they are wrong on the issues. cbayer Jun 2013 #58
I don't care. nt rrneck Jun 2013 #23
Thanks for your feedback. (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #25
Why are there only two choices?...He may be an agnostic. whathehell Jun 2013 #28
I think we've probably had some atheist Presidents who LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #30
What exactly do you mean by this: trotsky Jun 2013 #32
There are certain principles that, while they aren't LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #36
How much agreement do you think there is among Christians on these principles? trotsky Jun 2013 #37
Instead of interpreting what those teachings mean, LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #42
"Instead of interpreting..." trotsky Jun 2013 #43
You're talking to me as if I were a Christian and LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #45
As I have stated repeatedly, trotsky Jun 2013 #48
Haven't been here that long LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #33
In keeping with your reasoning, the probability that we've had a president with an IQ of 70 or ... Jim__ Jun 2013 #38
GWB (nt) LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #39
No "other?" MADem Jun 2013 #51
You are missing the obvious poll option: ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #54
Don't you mean that he's a secret MUSLIN? LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #66
a Christian - hence held in disdain by many here who find those that believe DrDan Jun 2013 #55
I don't know for sure but I think most atheists on this board... uriel1972 Jun 2013 #62
Obviously we can't tell what someone inwardly believes... LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #64
I would tend to put Obama in the category skepticscott Jun 2013 #70
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Is President Obama secret...»Reply #47