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Jim__

(15,057 posts)
5. We don't understand enough about human ideas to reach any conclusions about alien ideas.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 08:06 PM
Feb 2012

For instance, you say:

When alien mathematicians in other galaxies have occasion to refer to the number 3.141592..., they aren't considering the simple idea of a circle that naive people think is available to almost any intelligent being in the universe. No, there aren't any ideas. Those aliens are studying the electro-chemical processes in human brains. We the people of the planet Earth pwn the realm of ideas.


But, we can find human intelligence that sees pi very differently from the way most of us see it. Daniel Tammet is a savant, he sees pi as a landscape. From wikipedia :

Tammet's unusually vivid and complex synesthesia has been widely reported. In his mind, he says, each positive integer up to 10,000 has its own unique shape, colour, texture and feel. He can intuitively "see" results of calculations as synaesthetic landscapes without using conscious mental effort and can "sense" whether a number is prime or composite. He has described his visual image of 289 as particularly ugly, 333 as particularly attractive, and pi as beautiful. The number 6 apparently has no distinct image yet what he describes as an almost small nothingness, opposite to the number 9 which he calls large and towering.[8][14] Tammet has described 25 as energetic and the "kind of number you would invite to a party".[15] Tammet not only verbally describes these visions, but has also created artwork, including a watercolour painting of pi.

Tammet holds the European record for reciting pi from memory to 22,514 digits in five hours and nine minutes on 14 March 2004.[16] Tammet's record currently ranks 6th in the world.[17]


Tammett can also talk about the digits in pi but that may be because he lives around people who refer to those digits and he is able to do the translation. How do we know that an alien intelligence won't see things more the way Tammet sees things and do computations as some form of blending landscapes? I don't believe we can know that.

I don't believe that you can claim human ideas are definitely other than some neural networks in the brain that represent knowledge. Saying this does not eliminate the possibility that non-human civilizations could have knowledge of pi; it's just that their mental representation of it may be quite different than ours.

Recommendations

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Not clear what this has to do with religion. Deep13 Feb 2012 #1
A certain pattern of reasoning is repeatedly used Boojatta Feb 2012 #2
Glad I mentioned it... Deep13 Feb 2012 #14
A couple of things Boojatta Feb 2012 #20
The sentence following "one recent example." Deep13 Feb 2012 #27
Does this have a link or did you, as OP make this up? There are... MarkCharles Feb 2012 #3
"Ideas can be ..." Boojatta Feb 2012 #4
I am impressed. Boojatta Feb 2012 #22
We don't understand enough about human ideas to reach any conclusions about alien ideas. Jim__ Feb 2012 #5
And tama Feb 2012 #7
I'm not sure what point you are making. Jim__ Feb 2012 #10
Very simple tama Feb 2012 #11
It's not so much that neural networks manifest in our experience as ... Jim__ Feb 2012 #12
Funda-Mental tama Feb 2012 #17
Mental representation of what? Boojatta Feb 2012 #8
A mental representation of pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Jim__ Feb 2012 #9
Before I disagree with anything that you wrote, clarification might be helpful. Boojatta Feb 2012 #18
Can you envision a 4 dimensional sphere? Jim__ Feb 2012 #23
3D and anthropic principle tama Feb 2012 #28
The brain doesn't care pscot Feb 2012 #6
been here done this deacon_sephiroth Feb 2012 #13
Did I post in that thread by Rug? Boojatta Feb 2012 #15
Now the world of imagination is boundless..... yes it is. AlbertCat Feb 2012 #30
Throws Kant's "Critique Of Pure Reason" at OP Odin2005 Feb 2012 #16
Cultural agreements about the nature of reality GliderGuider Feb 2012 #19
The following should be taken at face value, not as a veiled insult. Boojatta Feb 2012 #21
Who decides for me what's a "true conception" and what's a "misconception"? GliderGuider Feb 2012 #24
I didn't point to something in particular and assert that it's a misconception. Boojatta Feb 2012 #25
Do I "surely" believe that such a thing as a misconception actually exists? GliderGuider Feb 2012 #26
Within Australian aboriginal culture for example, "song lines" or "dreamtracks" are accepted as real AlbertCat Feb 2012 #29
"Are they real?" is a culturally determined question. GliderGuider Feb 2012 #31
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