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Deep13

(39,157 posts)
14. Glad I mentioned it...
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 02:43 PM
Feb 2012

...since your line of thinking is going in a different direction from what I thought. I guess I'm not familiar with the back story. The idea that only dreamed-of things are real sounds more like postmodernism than atheism (though admittedly there is probably some overlap). It reminds me of the distinction between signifiers (words) and the signified (ideas that represent reality). In this paradigm, the most we can hope to do is to describe the mental representation of reality as conveyed by our senses and apprehended by our minds. The objective reality never comes within our experience.

While there is some truth to that, I think it is overstated. If our senses and minds did not create at least a close approximation of reality, they would not have created a survival advantage and we would not have survived to this point. Most skeptical atheists, therefore, tend to believe in the objective reality of your example and assume that anything beyond our perception is imagined (something we are abundantly capable of doing) unless a real reason is found to accept it. What you are suggesting--that reality only consists of what is dreamed of, is a lot more like the ontological argument as proof of god: that if there is a word for something, it must be real. I refute that idea with one word: Godzilla.

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Not clear what this has to do with religion. Deep13 Feb 2012 #1
A certain pattern of reasoning is repeatedly used Boojatta Feb 2012 #2
Glad I mentioned it... Deep13 Feb 2012 #14
A couple of things Boojatta Feb 2012 #20
The sentence following "one recent example." Deep13 Feb 2012 #27
Does this have a link or did you, as OP make this up? There are... MarkCharles Feb 2012 #3
"Ideas can be ..." Boojatta Feb 2012 #4
I am impressed. Boojatta Feb 2012 #22
We don't understand enough about human ideas to reach any conclusions about alien ideas. Jim__ Feb 2012 #5
And tama Feb 2012 #7
I'm not sure what point you are making. Jim__ Feb 2012 #10
Very simple tama Feb 2012 #11
It's not so much that neural networks manifest in our experience as ... Jim__ Feb 2012 #12
Funda-Mental tama Feb 2012 #17
Mental representation of what? Boojatta Feb 2012 #8
A mental representation of pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Jim__ Feb 2012 #9
Before I disagree with anything that you wrote, clarification might be helpful. Boojatta Feb 2012 #18
Can you envision a 4 dimensional sphere? Jim__ Feb 2012 #23
3D and anthropic principle tama Feb 2012 #28
The brain doesn't care pscot Feb 2012 #6
been here done this deacon_sephiroth Feb 2012 #13
Did I post in that thread by Rug? Boojatta Feb 2012 #15
Now the world of imagination is boundless..... yes it is. AlbertCat Feb 2012 #30
Throws Kant's "Critique Of Pure Reason" at OP Odin2005 Feb 2012 #16
Cultural agreements about the nature of reality GliderGuider Feb 2012 #19
The following should be taken at face value, not as a veiled insult. Boojatta Feb 2012 #21
Who decides for me what's a "true conception" and what's a "misconception"? GliderGuider Feb 2012 #24
I didn't point to something in particular and assert that it's a misconception. Boojatta Feb 2012 #25
Do I "surely" believe that such a thing as a misconception actually exists? GliderGuider Feb 2012 #26
Within Australian aboriginal culture for example, "song lines" or "dreamtracks" are accepted as real AlbertCat Feb 2012 #29
"Are they real?" is a culturally determined question. GliderGuider Feb 2012 #31
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