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Jim__

(15,222 posts)
18. Is the article "What is Real" by Meinard Kuhlman?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:37 PM
Jul 2013

I read that article in Scientific American after reading your post. It reads similar to your description - if it's not the same they must be part of a series. Kuhlman called the new idea Ontic Structural Realism. Massimei Pigliucci has written a couple of columns on this (as a book review of Every Thing Must Go ) part 1 and part 2

An excerpt from one of Pigliucci's columns:

...

And we now get to ontic structural realism, the position endorsed by Ladyman and Ross, and which is beginning to convince me (with some reservations here and there). This is how they themselves put it:

Ontic Structual Realism (OSR) is the view that the world has an objective modal structure that is ontologically fundamental ... According to OSR, even the identity and individuality of objects depends on the relational structure of the world. ... There are no things. Structure is all there is.

Hence the title of the book: Every Thing Must Go! Now, before you go all New Agey or Buddhist on me, please note that Ladyman and Ross derive their metaphysics from the best physics available. The details are fascinating, and in themselves make the book a must read, but essentially their claim is that all currently viable theories in fundamental physics — including quantum mechanics, string theory, M-theory and their rivals — have in common principles like non-locality, entanglement and such, which point toward the surprising conclusion that “at bottom” there are no “things,” only structure.

...

Causality has been a troubled concept since Hume’s famous deflating analysis of it, but quantum mechanics — and, again, all the other currently viable candidate physical theories — simply tell us that at the lowest level of analysis the concept breaks down, it doesn’t do any work for the physicist. Philosophers have noted for a while now that fundamental physicists talk about laws and mathematical descriptions, but they don’t talk about causes very much, if at all. And modern physics explains why: at bottom, there are no causes.

But wait a minute! Are Ladyman and Ross telling us that causes and objects are illusory? Is this yet another instance of people claiming that things that we think exist and play a crucial role in our understanding of the world do not actually exist? Are we to do away with tables and people, just like some pundits these days want to argue that free will, consciousness, morality and so on, are illusions, because none of them have a place in fundamental physics? Are Harris, Rosenberg and other modern nihilists right after all??

Nope, they are not. (Here begins the payoff of all the hard work we’ve done so far.) Let’s take causality first. According to Ladyman and Ross it is a concept that is eliminated in fundamental physics, but needs to be retained by the special sciences (from biology to economics). That’s because causality makes sense only in systems for which there is temporal asymmetry (a before and an after), and that — while not being the case for physics — is very much the case for the special sciences. L&R do not treat the concept of causality as an “illusion” to be dispelled once the special sciences are reduced to physics, because no such reduction is in the cards.

...

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

A Scientific American article on quantum physics? I am genuinely impressed. cbayer Jul 2013 #1
The article was impenetrable at times. There was stuff like this - pinto Jul 2013 #5
I took 4 years of calculus - no problem, but physics kicked my butt. cbayer Jul 2013 #6
I could never wrap my brain around. AlbertCat Jul 2013 #28
I'll ask this guy. rug Jul 2013 #2
LOL. Is his head to the right or the left? Is water wet? pinto Jul 2013 #3
Looks like refraction in a pool. rug Jul 2013 #4
Thread winner, rug! longship Jul 2013 #9
application of concepts from quantum physics to other areas are almost always nonsense. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #7
I don't get what you mean. pinto Jul 2013 #12
Quantum physics describes the nature of physical reality at the micro level. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #14
Thanks Warren edhopper Jul 2013 #15
Relevant: trotsky Jul 2013 #17
I read an article. Got some ideas from it. Posted. Probably a mistake to use a religious analogy. pinto Jul 2013 #21
s'okay edhopper Jul 2013 #22
Mostly what I get from delving into modern physics is an appreciation Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #24
I know what you mean edhopper Jul 2013 #25
Here's the lead of the piece I read - pinto Jul 2013 #20
Yeah, three paragraphs and I'm done. RevStPatrick Jul 2013 #8
Quantum is just the way the universe is. longship Jul 2013 #10
Thanks for the lead, I'll check it out. (aside) I'm peddling nothing here. Honestly. pinto Jul 2013 #11
Yup! But field theory is still the real deal, for now. longship Jul 2013 #13
Interesting edhopper Jul 2013 #16
Is the article "What is Real" by Meinard Kuhlman? Jim__ Jul 2013 #18
Yeah. They ran it with the "What is Real?" title. Here's what is currently up on the SA website - pinto Jul 2013 #19
God? I thought all that was about a cat. MissMarple Jul 2013 #23
Looking forward to reading the August issue exboyfil Jul 2013 #26
Hogwash. Particles are neither unique nor immortal. DetlefK Jul 2013 #27
I understood the article to say structural relations are important and not perspective. Jim__ Jul 2013 #29
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